CCRP (AUTO) low level bombing with crosswind

[HILOK]

hi everyone, i could need a good advice what i am doing wrong. 

 

the plan: low level runway bombing with snakeeyes in crosswind conditions.

 

the problem: the closer i get to release the more the CCRP fall line starts moving left to right towards the target, making it basically impossible to follow it and end up wings level for release. i managed to make it work by slightly banking towards the fall line from the right (target side) and trying to meet it at impact point. see track. but i suppose that's not the right way to do it...

 

conditions below, runway magnetic track 064.

(i saw the other threads about CCRP bombing, but didnt find them to be related to this specific issue)

 

thanks

 

 

HORNET CROSSWIND BOMBING.miz f18-crosswind-bombing-AUTO-HIT.trk

[XCNuse]

Has been happening to me 100% of the time making it really hard to learn this bird.

 

This last mission I did didn't even have nearly winds like that; 3m/s on the ground. Attached is a screenshot showing target on hud, CCRP line, and tacview overhead of how much I had to turn to "follow the line."

 

I don't think wind is actually a requirement for this to go as wrong as it has for me.

[Spartan111sqn]

I guess is a bug linked to alignment, were you on IFA or NAV?, to me always happens on NAV when cold start on the carrier.

also if you try CCIP the pipper is also with a extreme deviaiton, probably a bug.

[HILOK]

1 hour ago, Spartan111sqn said:

I guess is a bug linked to alignment, were you on IFA or NAV?, to me always happens on NAV when cold start on the carrier.

also if you try CCIP the pipper is also with a extreme deviaiton, probably a bug.

thanks. it's an air start, so i would not expect the INS mode to be the issue here. but i will check that.

[BIGNEWY]

ASL in AUTO bombing is not wind corrected, it is reported.

 

thanks

[HILOK]

1 hour ago, XCNuse said:

Has been happening to me 100% of the time making it really hard to learn this bird.

 

This last mission I did didn't even have nearly winds like that; 3m/s on the ground. Attached is a screenshot showing target on hud, CCRP line, and tacview overhead of how much I had to turn to "follow the line."

 

I don't think wind is actually a requirement for this to go as wrong as it has for me.

 

 

thanks. i saw your thread, but i am not convinced the issues are related. the fall line is not that far off in my case...

have you checked the target waypoint altitude?

3 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

ASL in AUTO bombing is not wind corrected, it is reported.

 

thanks

good to know, thanks  

[HILOK]

22 minutes ago, BIGNEWY said:

ASL in AUTO bombing is not wind corrected, it is reported.

 

thanks

just one more thing. actually the ASL does correct for wind. it directs for a WCA into the right direction, and when you manage to release the bombs with VV on ASL, they are spot on. it seems only the ASL has a weird way of doing things, at the moment...

[XCNuse]

33 minutes ago, HILOK said:

thanks. i saw your thread, but i am not convinced the issues are related. the fall line is not that far off in my case...

have you checked the target waypoint altitude?

good to know, thanks  

 

Mine was a ground start and in IFA for the record; I mean you're looking at the target waypoint on the HUD, that's what everything is set to; it's definitely on the ground (it was indeed on the ground).

 

Again even if INS was "wrong" the CCRP line should be over the visible target waypoint as seen on the HUD so... something is 100% bugging out.

[maxTRX]

7 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

ASL in AUTO bombing is not wind corrected, it is reported.

 

thanks

 

It is corrected as HILOK said. ASL, VV and the target diamond line up in azimuth. The correction angle is shown on the heading tape. That's where the jet's nose is pointing.

 

@XCNuse.   Have you tried testing this from the air start?   BTW, you have wind from the north. At this alt. and speed and your heading, your correction angle should be very small. 

[XCNuse]

2 hours ago, Gripes323 said:

@XCNuse.   Have you tried testing this from the air start?   BTW, you have wind from the north. At this alt. and speed and your heading, your correction angle should be very small. 

 

Not yet; I haven't run into nearly as severe of an issue as last night and ran out of time; I definitely plan on fiddling a lot more with it tonight when I can to figure out where it gets weird.

 

It gets really shaky sometimes as well when I'm at what I would call "lower altitudes"

Every time I've been on the deck though it's been a bit weird.

 

If I can recall; anything... say 5,000ft AGL it seems to be totally fine..  I THINK.

I just haven't gotten around to testing it, as I didn't really notice it until last night; the first time it happened it wasn't nearly as significant as the screenshot I posted.

 

Just tried it again with a quick test; wasn't able to get anything to happen.
Going to see if it's happening with a specific bomb type (last night those were Rockeyes), or is happening after a rearm.

 

Something I did however notice is the line goes really off-target when you roll the aircraft; unsure if that's intentional or not; but if you roll you can get the line to basically head the opposite direction making it confusing which way you should be turning, surely that's wrong.

 

Well, I just tried just about everything and couldn't recreate it; but that picture can't deceive me; there is something certainly wrong somewhere.

Especially since I'm not the only one noticing there being some weird stuff happening.

I tried hot starts, cold starts, air starts, different bombs, wind, no wind, in single player I could not reproduce it.

Edited March 4, 2021 by XCNuse

[Scaley]

This has been reported for a while  the wind correction isn't mechanised correctly.  The YouTube link in my sig has a video explaining it.  

[HILOK]

so in a nutshell, although AUTO does correct for crosswinds, its mechanisation is somehow wrong (?)

thanks.

[Santi871]

You guys are mixing things up a little.

The release point for auto is wind corrected once you've reached the release point in terms of compensating the wind effect on munitions.

 

What's not wind corrected (and should be and it's reported) is the ASL and steering cue not lining you up with the release point with wind correction. So if you center the ASL and fly straight and level you will drift and have to constantly correct it until you reach the release point like in the first post.

 

For example, set up a left to right crosswind and line up with the ASL 20 miles from the target. Fly straight and level. The ASL will end up left of your velocity vector. That shouldn't be happening.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Santi871

[Scaley]

What Santi said matches what all my tests have shown.  The wind correction is correct from release to impact, but the ASL shows excessive correction until that point, meaning its not taking you to the release point in a straight line, and it should.  

[maxTRX]

I just saw this for myself  The problem is almost negligible with FF bombs and moderate winds. With RET bombs it's a mess.

I set up a 20 knot wind at 90deg to my course. I configured couple of Snakeyes for RET drop and... I pretty much had to use Kentucky windage on ingress.

I disregarded ASL, put the VV couple of deg. into the wind (from the target diamond on the ground) and when I approached my release point, the ASL drifted into the VV rapidly along with the release cue. It worked but yea... it's borked.

Well, I would definitely try to avoid a 20 knot crosswind component but that's a different story.

[Stearmandriver]

Santi's explanation is exactly what I see as well, and it's definitely magnified with retarded bombs.

[Jonny]

+1

Is there a post already written to ED about it that I can bump up to remind them to take care of it? 

Any link to it?