Is there an idiots guide to slow speed handling?

[undertheradar]

I have been simming since subloc's Jet (the late 80s) but always in 4th Gen fighters that either have FBW or flight models so poor that it didn't matter.

The Tomcat is my all time favorite jet but the best sim of it does nothing but frustrate me. I can't turn slow, where the Tomcat excels, at all. 

I know it is complicated and takes time but my lack of classic warbird experience is a real problem. I don't have a grasp of coordinated turns or what the Turn and Slip Indicator is telling me to do. 

I need small wins. What is the first step to getting this sorted out?

 

Thanks!

Edited March 23, 2021 by undertheradar

[Steff Bourne]

vor 41 Minuten schrieb undertheradar:

I have been simming since subloc's Jet (the late 80s) but always in 4th Gen fighters that either have FBW or flight models so poor that it didn't matter.

The Tomcat is my all time favorite jet but the best sim of it does nothing but frustrate me. I can't turn slow, where the Tomcat excels, at all. 

I know it is complicated and takes time but my lack of classic warbird experience is a real problem. I don't have a grasp of coordinated turns or what the Turn and Slip Indicator is telling me to do. 

I need small wins. What is the first step to getting this sorted out?

 

Thanks!

 

Hey. I know exactly in what situation you are now. I started absolutely the same as you. 
 

The problem is, when you are slow with the Cat and give some Joystick input for example left, you produce a Stall on that opposite Wing in this case right. So the Bird Flips in the wrong direction. I heard some Pilots use that to handle the Plane, but yeah, It sounds difficult to me, always push the Stick in the wrong direction.  
 

The better thing is, to turn the Cat only with Rudder. With Rudder you can let the Cat loaded in a turn (Backstick) and twist it what you like, without using Sidestickinputs. The other Method when you want to twist is, first unload the Plane (no Backstick) twist it with the stick what you like and then give Backstick again. I trained the Rudder technic and my Frust is gone  . You will get a feeling, when you have to use Rudder only (very slow - slow speeds) and when it starts, where you can use Sidestickinputs as well to twist. The inputs run into each other the faster you get.

Next tip is shaking. When the Cockpit is shaking a lot, it’s a indication for high AoA. When you are fast and you hear the plane creaking and crackling, then you are pulling high G‘s (+10). Attention to avoid Wingbreak. So always be careful on the Stick while you are slow or fast. 
 

when you are below 220 Knots, you can use full extended Flaps, for better turns. Be carful, above 220 Knots, you will jamm the Flaps and after that, you can’t retract them. 
 

When the Cat is swinging from left to right and so on, again unload the Plane a little bit, gain some speed, load it again and continue the turn. Don’t use Sidestickinputs to solve these situation. If you have to turn in such a situation, cause you are near the ground and the Plane is swinging to the ground, you can twist her with little Rudder inputs to avoid a crash. But unload the cat a little bit to gain speed, brings you back to a steady plane . 
 

It takes a while to handle the Cat, but when you have it, it’s a bäm god fu*** nice Plane! 
 

hope this tips can help you a little. 

Edited March 23, 2021 by Steff Bourne

[Hawkeye_UK]

Rudder, rudder and more rudder.  Cannot underline that enough.  The model is good though as it gives you so much feedback its better than other non FBW in that context.

 

Good rudder pedals help enormously for fine control and slow speed turning flight / fight and gun snapshots.  To this effect cannot recommend MFG Crosswinds enough.  They are not the cheapest, or the most expensive but they are sure tough to beat and a solid investment if this is a main hobby.  Mine are well over 3 years old, as good as the day i bought them, do not degrade, solid build, adjustable and also excellently designed if you switch planes alot (i use the choppers alot so being able to switch instantly to a non spring return centre is a huge benefit).

 

Alas it has to be said that hardware does indeed really help once you get away from the FBW modules, along with a good quality stick input.  Its the same as the warbirds.

 

 

[Lt_Jaeger]

Get yourself a Warbird and try to master it 

 

You mentioned it yourself, coming from warbirds helps a lot, since your feet dance on the Rudders kinda subconsciousness.

 

 

Other than that, it's said....rudder rudder rudder.    You got the yardstring in front of you, which indicates if you are slipping and you got the "ball".  

 

Rule of thumb is:  Kick the ball - means....lets say the indicator is to the left, you press the left rudder to keep him centered.  

 

As we are no real life pilots, it takes us forever to get this into the "memory" but it is worth working on it.... 

[Lurker]

Speed is not really something that should be bothering you unless you are about to fall out of the sky. The F14 likes to be fairly slow for such a huge bird. The thing that should be of main concern for you is angle of attack. That white strip to the left of the HUD, that's the only thing that you need to be watching. And even if you're not watching it the sounds and shaking of the cockpit will alert you to how much AoA you are pulling. Remember, the slower you are the more that AoA needle will go up. Obviously in tight turns, that needle will shoot up into the sky. Even at only moderate AoA levels you will be rolling the plane mostly with the rudders. This is where it gets tricky. Others in the thread have already touched on it, but when at high angles of attack dont use the joystick to roll the plane, use the rudders. At first it will be kind of strange, but once you get the hang of it you'll start to notice how much actual control you have, and with practice and muscle memory you'll be throwing it around like there is no tomorrow pretty quickly.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Lurker

[War_Pig]

The Turkeybird is a rudder airplane.  Learn to love the rudder, and the airplane will love you! 

Are you using maneuvering flaps?

[T6nit]

keep in mind roll axis is near the cross in the HUD not the nose. Step on the ball and practice at altitude. Also, this A/C can't be beat in 1V1 with 50% fuel and no tanks...keep it at 250-350 turn uphill to get the wings out and use flaps as well as controlling power. You will stern converge on anything with your turn rate except maybe a mirage with a good pilot.

Edited October 9, 2021 by T6nit

[Airhunter]

Rudder and roll-reversal at high AOA. Also, for BFM/dynamic maneuvering turn off ROLL SAS. I wouldn't really pay much attention to the slip or turn indicator when maneuvering in combat, look outside, listen and look for the buffet cues etc. 

[captain_dalan]

Boy am i late for this party, but on top what everyone else said:
Try to enter all breaks coordinated and once you do...... rudder rudder rudder...... 

[Sideburns]