Stick (VKB F-14) going AWOL after a while in a mission

[stingray77]

Hey

I've had it for the second time now that when flying mission "F-14A Bone Strike" after some time my stick went awol: it slowly pitched upwards (seen in F2 external view) and not even by pushing the stick fully forward I was able to bring the tailerons back to neutral... (I didn't touch the trim for that matter...)

After ending the mission (crash was unavoidable) everything was back to normal - the stick worked a-okay...

I've had it once while cruising to wp1 and yesterday shortly before returning to the carrier.

Any idea what I might have done wrong or what I could look for?

Thanks a lot for your input!

[draconus]

Look for any other bindings assigned to the pitch axis. Use Rctrl+Enter to check what is going on with controls. Also check if you use "force feedback" setting in the options.

[stingray77]

Thanks draconus - I will have a look the next time I run into this... That's at least something to check-out... 

Ah, and re force feedback: I'm pretty sure it's "turned off"...

Edited April 12, 2021 by stingray77

[stingray77]

Okay, I just encountered same problem again -> pressed Rctr+Enter -> shows the small diamond in the right lower corner of the crosshairs!

 

I understand the big diamond in the crosshairs is my joystick's position (was fully up = pitch down), and the small one is my trim... Which fits to the tailerons pitch up - bank right-position...

BUT: I only have the joystick's coolie hat assigned to the trim (no double assignment or so) and I did not touch it......!?

 

What's going on here???

 

See screenie...

 

 

Here another screenie showing the small diamond's position a bit better...

 

 

And this one shows the tailerons at the same time...

 

 

[draconus]

Man, at 109kts you are stalling the aircraft. No wonder you lose control. Let the nose drop, get speed and fly.

Unless it was caused by controller problems. Rctrl+Enter shows the aircraft controls state and it should match your psysical controls.

Also check if it involves significant maneuvering with autopilot engaged - it can mess up the trim.

Edited April 13, 2021 by draconus

[stingray77]

Thanks, mate.

Yep, that stall was caused by the trim's pitch-up... Couldn't fight it with stick fully forward (the tailerons came to neutral at best)... And I couldn't return trim back to neutral in time... (Was busy taking the shots )

 

As said I did not touch the trim hat (for a while) and neither did I use the autopilot...

 

Only/next thing to check/try (I learn) is to kill the coolie hat-assign for trim and see if the problem persits (if yes, it must be a problem with the hat/joystick on the new VKB F-14)........ 

 

[Lt_Jaeger]

Did you use active pause?   I usually don't do, but been fiddling with Lantirn a little and need some time. After I came off the active pause...the cat stalled right away with no real way to recover. Since I, like said, usually don't use active pause, I didn't investigate any further.    Might be a thing with you.

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Lt_Jaeger

[stingray77]

Thanks, but no, no active pause - it happend right in flight....... 

[Wingmate]

I have only ever had something like this happen before I start flying, usually means I have to recalibrate my stick with VKB's tool or it needs to be reseated by loosening the screw at the base pushing the stick down and re-tightening it.

[stingray77]

Hum, guess, I will have to dive into the VKB's tool again... I just calibrated the stick and left it alone then...

I can also re-tighten the stick (have it on a 200mm extension) again, although I did so only recently...

 

I also already posted my question in the VKB-forum - see what I can learn from there...

 

And an update: yesterday I had same issue again. Not AS bad as before, though: trim just went to the right - actually it WAS at the right side from one moment to the other, not wandering. (Rctrl+Enter was a GREAT hint, draconus!)
I tried resetting the trim by using the coolie hat - but nothing happened!

Found out that Alt-Tab works well with the sim in pause.

Went to the DevCfg and found the coolie did not register movements for a second or two, then came back to life.

Very strange!

[draconus]

Sounds like device problem or external VKB software (is it needed/critical at all?).

[Dangerzone]

On 4/15/2021 at 6:26 PM, draconus said:

Sounds like device problem or external VKB software (is it needed/critical at all?).

 

I think it's more complicated than that. VKB does not need any software running at all. (All settings are firmware flashed). Plus if it was a device issue one would expect the problem would persist, and not fix when respawning and touching nothing else. 

 

FWIW - I've just started experiencing the same problem myself (although I also own a VKB) and mine was in the FA18, so I'm wondering if it's deeper in DCS itself instead of than just a single module. In my case it pitched forward, not backwards.

 

When I viewed the AXIS settings it had the axis as dead center (I did this by hitting escape and going into the AXIS page, and I could see where the axis was on the slider) I didn't get a chance to do RCTRL+Enter before I crashed however because I forgot that key combination so I don't know if trim or other things were being affected. However like you - on respawn the problem disappeared. 

[stingray77]

Great (well, in a way ) to learn that I'm not the ony one...

And interesting to see your observations on this (same hardware but different module)...

 

I have made it a habit to hit Rctrl+Enter when starting to fly, so I can check/see right right away, when I "feel" something strange going on...

 

In addition to my VKB F-14-stick I just received my Virpil VFX (F-14 stick) that I intend to put on my Warthog-base on the weekend. If I am getting similar results (after a while) that should be strong a hint that the problem is not hardware-related. We'll see... (Posting my question in the VKB forum did not result in anything I could check or try, yet...)

 

What puzzles me, is that trim does not have any keybinds in the Controls "pre-set" (at least not in/for the F-14-module) - so there is no conflict in keys readily visible... I understand that there is no trim adjustment as long as it's not assigned to some key/joystick-button... But who knows what else may go on in the deeps of DCS?

 

Hope that we will get some attention with this weird thing going on! Crossing fingers...

[Dangerzone]

4 hours ago, stingray77 said:

Great (well, in a way ) to learn that I'm not the ony one...

And interesting to see your observations on this (same hardware but different module)...

 

I have made it a habit to hit Rctrl+Enter when starting to fly, so I can check/see right right away, when I "feel" something strange going on...

 

In addition to my VKB F-14-stick I just received my Virpil VFX (F-14 stick) that I intend to put on my Warthog-base on the weekend. If I am getting similar results (after a while) that should be strong a hint that the problem is not hardware-related. We'll see... (Posting my question in the VKB forum did not result in anything I could check or try, yet...)

 

What puzzles me, is that trim does not have any keybinds in the Controls "pre-set" (at least not in/for the F-14-module) - so there is no conflict in keys readily visible... I understand that there is no trim adjustment as long as it's not assigned to some key/joystick-button... But who knows what else may go on in the deeps of DCS?

 

Hope that we will get some attention with this weird thing going on! Crossing fingers...

 

Just had a thought.... Do you use Vaicom?

[stingray77]

Nope, I don't...

Sounds like some voice control tool!? ...I see what you were thinking, but - no - afaik the only way to adjust trim would be by touching that coolie hat...

Edited April 20, 2021 by stingray77

[draconus]

6 minutes ago, stingray77 said:

afaik the only way to adjust trim would be by touching that coolie hat...

AFCS can control it in AP modes.

[stingray77]

Anything to look into in the AP-settings then?

Although - being still pretty fresh in DCS - I never used the AP until now...

 

ANYHOW: thanks for your input (again) - at least things to think over or try out! 

Edited April 20, 2021 by stingray77

[draconus]

Real story - a few times after long cruise I got into engagement forgeting that I have AP set. Maneuvering and rolling over made my controls totally unpredictable and I even lost the aircraft then. I didn't know what happened until I found out that the AP was trying to follow with trim changes in high banks and roll overs. Add to that it was first months with a Tomcat.

[stingray77]

Hum, sounds like a learning curve for you...

 

So, to make sure, I should see that I don't have the AP on, correct?

Hm, the only thing I can imagine "connected" with AP would be the "AP dis-/engage / nosewheelsteering" assigned to my stick's pinkie button... Not too far fetched... I can check this by intentionally pressing that button and see if that moves the trim....... Well worth a try!

I understand that I would not have needed to touch any of the AP switches in the cockpit beforehand (which I haven't), right?

 

Thanks again!

[draconus]

No, not that one. I mean the master AP switch on the left panel. It works kinda like FBW and trims for you to keep attitude.

Edited April 20, 2021 by draconus

[stingray77]

Thanks - but as I haven't touched any of those switches, chances are pretty slim, that I fumbled something, I guess..

 

Actually I have been trying and working a little bit in/with the sim yesterday evening - pressing the NWS-pinkie (as you are saying) did not have any effect... Then I was trying out the AP selection/switches on the left console and saw some of its effects. The "Hold Alt" was noticeable - and was pretty similar to what I was experiencing beforehand... But that was pitch up/down only - no port/starboard bank...

 

What I also checked/made sure in the "Controls"-settings, is that I only have the stock AP-key designations - not alterations here!

 

I'll keep playing with and learning how to use AP - and will try out the Virpil-stick as next steps..... 

[Dangerzone]

Just had it occur again tonight. Vaicom disabled, so I can rule that out. Just wondering what control you have set for your trim. I have the POV configured as buttons, and I'm suspicious that maybe something is getting 'locked' or similar and causing it to stick. I managed to RCTRL+Enter tonight and the trim + indicator was full forward. Holding it back for a half minute or more was able to bring it back to centre - so I think it may be trim based.

 

I'll be monitoring that for a while now (although I'm going to be off DCS for a while) but I'll report back as I have more information.

[stingray77]

That'll be cool - let's share our learnings and hopefully iron it out (if that's something WE can do - otherwise let's hope ED or HB will chime in)...

 

As said: I have trim assigned to my stick's coolie hat... No key-bindings for trim other than that.

Edited April 21, 2021 by stingray77

[Dangerzone]

One thing as a thought. Maybe it's worth binding the trim to a modifier if you use one as well, so that it can't be triggered by phantom/ghost inputs and see if that resolves it. If this does fix it, then we can narrow it down to that individual binding.

 

[stingray77]

Yeah, good point (although a lot more pita when needing to trim and having to fiddle around with another modifier)...

 

Another thought from my side (don't know of I have done this, yet) is binding "AP emergency disengage" to the stick's lever (as per real life) and see if the "weirdo-trim" goes back to normal by triggering that one...