Mr_sukebe Posted April 13, 2021 Posted April 13, 2021 (edited) Hoping that someone can point me in the right direction. I've built a mission on the Normandy map using warbirds. Just tried flying it tonight in a P51 from England. A pair of RAF Spitfires have a "search then engage" order to defend the area around the Isle of Wight and the English airfields. A pair of Fw190A8s have a "CAP" order, and a waypoint order just north of the French coast. Both sides have an AWACs unit to simulate the RAF and Luftwaffe radar systems of the time. I take off in my P51 from Tangmere and as soon as I'm southbound and feet wet, I have my AWACs telling me that the 190s are hot and inbound (i.e have decided to engage an enemy aircraft roughly 70 miles north). Thinking that I'd take the easy option, I run back north towards my Spitfire AI CAP team. The A8s completely ignore the Spitfires, fly straight over them and continue to chase me. The friendly Spitfires carry on as if in a daydream. Am I missing something really obvious here about the orders that I should give? Edited April 13, 2021 by Mr_sukebe 7800x3d, 5080, 64GB, PCIE5 SSD - Oculus Pro - Moza (AB9), Virpil (Alpha, CM3, CM1 and CM2), WW (TOP and CP), TM (MFDs, Pendular Rudder), Tek Creations (F18 panel), Total Controls (Apache MFD), Jetseat
3WA Posted April 13, 2021 Posted April 13, 2021 29 minutes ago, Mr_sukebe said: The A8s completely ignore the Spitfires, fly straight over them and continue to chase me. Lol, yeah. Same for me in anti-tank missions with the Ka-50. Enemy heli's whose main targets should be the tanks on my side completely ignore the tanks, and come STRAIGHT FOR ME, as fast as they can. They can be 14 km away, but that doesn't matter. They know where I am, and here they come. All four of them at once. AI in this game needs a COMPLETE OVERHAUL.
StevanJ Posted April 13, 2021 Posted April 13, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mr_sukebe said: Hoping that someone can point me in the right direction. I've built a mission on the Normandy map using warbirds. Just tried flying it tonight in a P51 from England. A pair of RAF Spitfires have a "search then engage" order to defend the area around the Isle of Wight and the English airfields. A pair of Fw190A8s have a "CAP" order, and a waypoint order just north of the French coast. Both sides have an AWACs unit to simulate the RAF and Luftwaffe radar systems of the time. I take off in my P51 from Tangmere and as soon as I'm southbound and feet wet, I have my AWACs telling me that the 190s are hot and inbound (i.e have decided to engage an enemy aircraft roughly 70 miles north). Thinking that I'd take the easy option, I run back north towards my Spitfire AI CAP team. The A8s completely ignore the Spitfires, fly straight over them and continue to chase me. The friendly Spitfires carry on as if in a daydream. Am I missing something really obvious here about the orders that I should give? Make Spit CAP, Try 'search then engage in Zone'- for the spits', Expand the zone, Then as long as you fly the Anton into a position where the Spits can see them (notice them visually), and theyre 'in the spit'z danger zone- They will attack, until they destroy the antons or the A8's fly out of the 'danger zone'.. 53 minutes ago, 3WA said: Lol, yeah. Same for me in anti-tank missions with the Ka-50. Enemy heli's whose main targets should be the tanks on my side completely ignore the tanks, and come STRAIGHT FOR ME, as fast as they can. They can be 14 km away, but that doesn't matter. They know where I am, and here they come. All four of them at once. AI in this game needs a COMPLETE OVERHAUL. You can tell the enemy Heli to ignore you. But what Heli's are you up against? Edited April 13, 2021 by StevanJ
3WA Posted April 13, 2021 Posted April 13, 2021 Cobra's. Yeah, but their main targets should be the tanks, not my heli. Many people have describe this situation now. Enemies always go for the player if your nearby, even if you should not be the main target, or if you are currently no threat to them.
StevanJ Posted April 14, 2021 Posted April 14, 2021 (edited) Okay, Yes- The AI is the most horrible soul destroying thing to deal with in the game. And the biggest problem is some mission makers arent dealing with the AI and programming them correctly. Being honest, ive put my fair share of bug reports, and complaints in. But this is something that always need thinking laterally. Long term- its only going to get worse before it gets better. From the Roadmap, i think i saw end of 2022 (might be mistaken), but i know delays happen, and other stuff is ahead (damage models etc) But we can work around the issues. Normally the AI will assess the biggest threat and priorities whats most important. If the Cobra see smoke trails, followed by their armour blowing up, theyre gonna do what they need to do to stop the armour being destroyed. That means - theyre coming for you first. They are reacting to the biggest threat, you. So if you dont want them to act under fire -you have to program them to ignore 'their own logic'. Firstly, TASK 1 ROE 'Only Designated' Were telling the AI, Only destroy what i designate a target for you if its not designated, dont attack it even if attacked (although this might cause them to RTB if damaged).. Then TASK 2 'Search then engage group' this is the Cobras mission, here they will search for the designated target and wont stop until they are destroyed- set them to CAS and use the task menu, telling them what you want them to destroy.. Once they achieve the mission, theyre going to need to do something else. TASK 3 (Upon Group Dead>Flag On 1- depending on group) set ROE to 'Fire at Will' condition flag on 1, this will put the Cobras back into 'logic mode', they will now assess all threats in the area and shoot at whatever they think is highest priority (that may be you). If you dont want them to fire at anything after theyve achieved their mission, just set them to 'Return Fire'. So now you need to think about whats going to happen after either you or the Cobras achieve their mission (destroy the tanks).~ Heres a template, Watch what happens, The Cobra will now fly right past you (giving a little wave) and start to attack the tanks on your side. Copy Paste the Units to add more tanks/helis and have a good look at the directions in the Task menu. Whatevers at the top of the task menu, is their first priority, Theyll go through the list one by one, until each task is achieved and theyve nothing left. Unless something more prioritising comes up (low fuel/No ammo), they will always follow the tasks you give them. If you dont give them tasks, they will use their initiative and do what they think is right to maintain coalition mission objective (attack the other side). 3wa.miz Edited April 14, 2021 by StevanJ
dorianR666 Posted April 14, 2021 Posted April 14, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said: Hoping that someone can point me in the right direction. I've built a mission on the Normandy map using warbirds. Just tried flying it tonight in a P51 from England. A pair of RAF Spitfires have a "search then engage" order to defend the area around the Isle of Wight and the English airfields. A pair of Fw190A8s have a "CAP" order, and a waypoint order just north of the French coast. Both sides have an AWACs unit to simulate the RAF and Luftwaffe radar systems of the time. I take off in my P51 from Tangmere and as soon as I'm southbound and feet wet, I have my AWACs telling me that the 190s are hot and inbound (i.e have decided to engage an enemy aircraft roughly 70 miles north). Thinking that I'd take the easy option, I run back north towards my Spitfire AI CAP team. The A8s completely ignore the Spitfires, fly straight over them and continue to chase me. The friendly Spitfires carry on as if in a daydream. Am I missing something really obvious here about the orders that I should give? post the miz, this sounds too stupid even for dcs ai must be a mistake somewhere Edited April 14, 2021 by dorianR666 CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600X GPU: AMD RX 580
Mr_sukebe Posted April 14, 2021 Author Posted April 14, 2021 Here's the mission: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZFdAFH6DSNerVWmvHIqfiW0BvK4Ch0zI/view?usp=sharing and the track file: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gf1qpdXzQTXcgxRvaO8blxmaoMlTVCSx/view?usp=sharing I'm hoping that it's just me being a bit of a mug with the settings that I had for the AI, so if you can shed any light on that, would be great. 7800x3d, 5080, 64GB, PCIE5 SSD - Oculus Pro - Moza (AB9), Virpil (Alpha, CM3, CM1 and CM2), WW (TOP and CP), TM (MFDs, Pendular Rudder), Tek Creations (F18 panel), Total Controls (Apache MFD), Jetseat
StevanJ Posted April 14, 2021 Posted April 14, 2021 6 hours ago, Mr_sukebe said: Here's the mission: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZFdAFH6DSNerVWmvHIqfiW0BvK4Ch0zI/view?usp=sharing and the track file: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gf1qpdXzQTXcgxRvaO8blxmaoMlTVCSx/view?usp=sharing I'm hoping that it's just me being a bit of a mug with the settings that I had for the AI, so if you can shed any light on that, would be great. I cant view this as im on my phone, But last night i made a mission with the sole purpose of as you said' Bait enemies into another squad. Make Spit CAP, Try 'search then engage in Zone'- for the spits', Expand the zone, Then as long as you fly the Anton into a position where the Spits can see them (notice them visually), and theyre 'in the spit'z danger zone- They will attack, until they destroy the antons or the A8's fly out of the 'danger zone'.. If the enemies dont see the Spit, they wont attack them. If the Spit dont see the enemies, they wont attack them. You have to imagine youre actually in WW2, Youd have to 'radio base' to ask for backup, Or radio the spit for 'back up'. If you dont want to add the radio command, youll have to assume that the spit wont see the antons, and so must make a conservative attempt at getting them to notice you. If you watch the horizon, youll see in my mission vid, there are 2 bandits in the distance. Sometimes they dont see the FW, because they are flying away, If theyre flying in the direction of the gunfire, theyll see it and come to fight. If you want the AI to do something other than 'act normal' you have to program them to. Hope this helps.
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