Steerpoing creation via map notes?

[JG-1_Vogel]

Afternoon folks,

 

Just a quick question, is it possible to create steerpoints in the Viper by placing those little circles on the F10 map and entering S01 etc? It was a most welcome trick for the Viggen and was unsure if we're able to do such things in the Viper? It would save a lot of time entering in lat/long coordinates when I'm flying solo, akin to having the data cartridge pre-programmed.

 

Cheers,

Vogel

[Machalot]

6 hours ago, JG-1_Vogel said:

Afternoon folks,

 

Just a quick question, is it possible to create steerpoints in the Viper by placing those little circles on the F10 map and entering S01 etc? It was a most welcome trick for the Viggen and was unsure if we're able to do such things in the Viper? It would save a lot of time entering in lat/long coordinates when I'm flying solo, akin to having the data cartridge pre-programmed.

 

Cheers,

Vogel

Every time I take a break from the Viggen I miss this feature. 

[ZeroReady]

Not that I know of. The data cartridge would essentially be the mission editor, that's where you would pre fill the waypoints. But I have found that by binding the dobber switch to w a s and d, and the UFC number buttons the numpad, data entry in the Viper can be surprising fast, as opposed to clicking on the buttons.

Edited April 19, 2021 by ZeroReady

[Machalot]

3 hours ago, ZeroReady said:

Not that I know of. The data cartridge would essentially be the mission editor, that's where you would pre fill the waypoints. But I have found that by binding the dobber switch to w a s and d, and the UFC number buttons the numpad, data entry in the Viper can be surprising fast, as opposed to clicking on the buttons.

 

I mapped the numpad directly (RCL as . ), the dobber to the arrow keys, and the increment/ decrement switch to ctrl+arrow keys. The six buttons at the top of the UFC (COM1, LIST, AA, AG, etc) fit nicely into the 6-key group of insert, delete, home, end, page up, page down. 

[ZeroReady]

Yeah I still need to do the increment decrement bind to something. I have the 6 top buttons as 1-6 on top of the keyboard, just so they're closer to my throttle hand.

[Machalot]

2 hours ago, ZeroReady said:

Yeah I still need to do the increment decrement bind to something. I have the 6 top buttons as 1-6 on top of the keyboard, just so they're closer to my throttle hand.

Maybe Q and Z for you?  Or page up / down. 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Machalot

[SpaceMonkey037]

9 hours ago, ZeroReady said:

The data cartridge would essentially be the mission editor, that's where you would pre fill the waypoints.

No, the mission editor or the F10 map are not sufficient to act as DTC programming equipment. The first itteration of the DTC would, like in real life, be a simple menu where you manually input steerpoint coordinates and other informaiton. The reason why the DTC is so important for the F-16 is not because it "saves" time when starting up, it's because many of the F-16's features rely on the DTC for spesifc data to be inputted that cannot be inputted in the cockpit. Examples of this are:
NAV Routes
Geographic Lines
Preplanned Threats

The mission editor currently cannot do this. For that reason the easiest way to integrate the DTC system to the F-16 is by having a menu where you type in the coordinates for steerpoint, what steerpoints make up the different NAV routes and Lines etc. This is just like how DTC originally worked and is also a perfectly valid way of inputting DTC data IRL today. Later on we would see advanced mission planning systems similar to CombatFlite that allows you to edit all of these advanced DTC features.

 

[Machalot]

54 minutes ago, SpaceMonkey037 said:

No, the mission editor or the F10 map are not sufficient to act as DTC programming equipment. ... For that reason the easiest way to integrate the DTC system to the F-16 is by having a menu where you type in the coordinates for steerpoint, what steerpoints make up the different NAV routes and Lines etc.

Can you clarify why this function would not be supportable via mark points on the F10 map?  That's exactly how the Viggen does it -- the user creates mark points and labels them with codes that are parsed by the DTC interpreter and turned into waypoints, attack points, reconnaissance points, and landing points with associated heading information.  The Viggen has a step to actually insert the data cartridge and load it, but for the Viper that could be done via the Comms menu or some other special function until they implement an actual DTC model.

[SpaceMonkey037]

16 minutes ago, Machalot said:

Can you clarify why this function would not be supportable via mark points on the F10 map?  That's exactly how the Viggen does it -- the user creates mark points and labels them with codes that are parsed by the DTC interpreter and turned into waypoints, attack points, reconnaissance points, and landing points with associated heading information.  The Viggen has a step to actually insert the data cartridge and load it, but for the Viper that could be done via the Comms menu or some other special function until they implement an actual DTC model.

All of those things can be done through the UFC in the cockpit. What I'm talking about are things that you cannot do in the cockpit. To clarify what I meant with my list.

 

1 hour ago, SpaceMonkey037 said:

NAV Routes
Geographic Lines
Preplanned Threats

NAV Routes: Steerpoints 1-25 are NAV route steerpoints. These are the only steerpoints that will show up on the HSD as small circles when not selected. Between the steerpoints you have connecting lines (not assosiated with geographic lines). You have 3 NAV routes, and each route is a connected of steerpoints. The spesific steerpoints chosen for each NAV route is done via the DTC, and only the DTC. For example, you can have only steerpoints 1-5 in NAV route 1, and then 10-12 in NAV route 2. These would then show up on the HSD with induvidual connecting lines not connected togheter. I am not sure about this, but I would definetly not be suprised if it is possibl to make NAV route 1 be steerpoint 1,5 and 10. And having NAV route 2 be steerpoint 2,6 and 9 for example. This would then be programmed through the DTC.

Geographic Lines: steerpoints 31-55 are Geographic Line steerpoints. These are identical to the NAV route steerpoints, with the only exception being that they don't show up as small circles when not selected. These steerpoints only have the connecting lines between them, hence why they are called "geographic Lines". Because these are identical to NAV routes in every other way, they also have 3 sets of steerpoints which make out 3 differnet lines. 

Preplanned Threats: Preplanned threats are steerpoints with the big circles often with a SAM site in them. SA10 for example. The name and the radius of this circle would be programmable via the DTC for each steerpoint. This neither is possible to do from the missoin editor/missoin planner we have in DCS atm from what I know.

Hope this made the reason for why DTC can't be integrated with F10 or the mission editor as these don't have the required features. 

[Falconeer]

6 hours ago, SpaceMonkey037 said:

All of those things can be done through the UFC in the cockpit. What I'm talking about are things that you cannot do in the cockpit. To clarify what I meant with my list.

 

NAV Routes: Steerpoints 1-25 are NAV route steerpoints. These are the only steerpoints that will show up on the HSD as small circles when not selected. Between the steerpoints you have connecting lines (not assosiated with geographic lines). You have 3 NAV routes, and each route is a connected of steerpoints. The spesific steerpoints chosen for each NAV route is done via the DTC, and only the DTC. For example, you can have only steerpoints 1-5 in NAV route 1, and then 10-12 in NAV route 2. These would then show up on the HSD with induvidual connecting lines not connected togheter. I am not sure about this, but I would definetly not be suprised if it is possibl to make NAV route 1 be steerpoint 1,5 and 10. And having NAV route 2 be steerpoint 2,6 and 9 for example. This would then be programmed through the DTC.

Geographic Lines: steerpoints 31-55 are Geographic Line steerpoints. These are identical to the NAV route steerpoints, with the only exception being that they don't show up as small circles when not selected. These steerpoints only have the connecting lines between them, hence why they are called "geographic Lines". Because these are identical to NAV routes in every other way, they also have 3 sets of steerpoints which make out 3 differnet lines. 

Preplanned Threats: Preplanned threats are steerpoints with the big circles often with a SAM site in them. SA10 for example. The name and the radius of this circle would be programmable via the DTC for each steerpoint. This neither is possible to do from the missoin editor/missoin planner we have in DCS atm from what I know.

Hope this made the reason for why DTC can't be integrated with F10 or the mission editor as these don't have the required features. 

 

a lot of those things (except PPT's) can be programmed in the JF17 aswell. It also uses a DTC and after making those points on the map, you can use the radio menu to ask the ground crew to update the DTC after you ejected it from the DTU. Then you need to reinstall the DTC after the update and reload the new information. 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Falconeer