Cockpit Switches

[Caldera]

Hey All,

 

I have never seen the inside of an actual A-10 cockpit so this is a question for those who have or know about it in detail.

 

My question is about how the switches work in the simulation.vs the real deal.  Also about mouse clicks vs keyboard / hardware binds.  I have a home made button box and delving into this some of the controls get a little confusing.

 

Most switches should function like On/Off switches or Momentary On/Off (ex: latching relay / logic or PTT) switches because that is what they look like and that is how real switches should work.

 

Keep reading...

 

The really weird Anti-Collision Lights switch that seems to act like a Momentary On/Off switch unless you have AC power supplied and have activated the pinky switch.  In that case it acts like a normal On/Off switch.  The SAS switches seem to work more less the same way, but need hydraulic pressure to act like a normal On/Off switch. These switches appear to have some kind of special unlatching / detaching mechanism that I have never seen before. 

 

How do the actual switches work? 

 

 Is the Landing Gear Lever actually a two position switch or is it a two position hydraulic control level? 

 

In any event, the key binds are Landing Gear Up, Landing Gear Down and another for Landing Gear Up/Down (toggle).  The lever for the refueling door appears to be the same kind of thing, but has one key bind as a toggle. 

 

The three or more position switches will generally have a key bind for each position.  For example the MFCD has a key bind for Day, Night and Off or the Landing Lights switch with Taxi, Off and Land.   Each switch position will have a separate key bind.    Yet, the two position switches do not have an On key bind and an Off key bind, it is just a single key bind (toggle).

 

Just the way ED chose to model the two position switches?

 

Thanks in advance,

Caldera

 

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Caldera

[Tinman]

The A-10, and any other plane or electrical device, uses any switch that makes sense for the application it is intended for. It's a design choice of the manufacturer. Those that are momentary until the power is turned on work with a electromagnet, that holds the switch in position. Cut the power to that and the switch returns with a spring.

 

As for the gear lever, my guess is that it's a mechanical lever with two end-switches to signal its position to the electronics. That's how I've seen most home cockpit builders do it as well.

 

The keybinds are somewhat arbitrary, and mostly due to the traditional input with keyboards and pushbuttons. You press a key to actuate a virtual switch, so toggling seems like a good idea generally. When you want the user to be able to set a switch to specific positions, you get keybinds for each position. As you assumed, that's ED's design choice for what they think makes sense for the user.

I have really only seen this after the release of the Thrustmaster Warthog (or maybe the cougar before that), that had a mix of on-off and on-on switches. Before that you generally only had pushbuttons on joysticks and toggling was the best choice.

[LeCuvier]

ED has provided a lot of ON/OFF toggles where the real cockpit has maintained 2- or 3-position switches. I have created a bunch of keybinds for 2- or 3 position switches. See below. Also I have posted a tutorial document that explains how to make your own https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/270080-lua-editing-for-additional-key-binds-tutorial-no-discussion-here-please/?tab=comments#comment-4646929

 

Here is a collection of keybinds I created for myself and others.
 

{down = iCommandPlaneAHCPGUNPACArm, up = iCommandPlaneAHCPGUNSafe, name = _('GUN/PAC switch 3-Pos ARM/SAFE'), category = _('Armament HUD Control Panel')},
{down = iCommandPlaneAHCPGUNArm, up = iCommandPlaneAHCPGUNSafe,    name = _('GUN/PAC switch 3-Pos GUNARM/SAFE'), category = _('Armament HUD Control Panel')},
{down = iCommandPlaneAHCPLaserArm, up = iCommandPlaneAHCPLaserSafe, name = _('LASER switch 2-Pos ARM/SAFE'), category = _('Armament HUD Control Panel')},
{down = 3004, up = 3004, cockpit_device_id = 7, value_down = 1.0, value_up = -1.0, name = _('TGP switch 2-Pos ON/OFF'), category = _('Armament HUD Control Panel')},
{down = 3004, cockpit_device_id = 7, value_down = 1.0, name = _('TGP Power switch ON'), category = _('Armament HUD Control Panel')},
{down = 3004, cockpit_device_id = 7, value_down = -1.0, name = _('TGP Power switch OFF'), category = _('Armament HUD Control Panel')},
{down = iCommandPlaneAHCPIFFCCOn, up = iCommandPlaneAHCPIFFCCTest, name = _('IFFCC switch 2-Pos ON/TEST'), category = _('Armament HUD Control Panel')},
{down = iCommandPlaneAHCPMasterArm, up = iCommandPlaneAHCPMasterSafe,name = _('Master switch 3-Pos ARM/SAFE'), category = _('Armament HUD Control Panel')},
{down = iCommandPlaneAHCPMasterTrain, up = iCommandPlaneAHCPMasterSafe, name = _('Master switch 3-Pos TRAIN/SAFE'), category = _('Armament HUD Control Panel')},
{down = 3006, up = 3006, cockpit_device_id = 7 , value_down = 1.0, value_up = 0.0, name = _('AHCP HUD Mode 2-Pos DAY/NIGHT'), category = _('Armament HUD Control Panel')},

{down = 3007, up = 3007, cockpit_device_id = 49 , value_down = 1.0, value_up = 0.0, name = _('Emergency Flood Light 2-Pos DAY/NIGHT'), category = _('Electrical power control panel')},
{down = 3007, cockpit_device_id = 49 , value_down = 1.0, name = _('Emergency Flood Light DAY'), category = _('Electrical power control panel')},
{down = 3007, cockpit_device_id = 49 , value_down = 0.0, name = _('Emergency Flood Light NIGHT'), category = _('Electrical power control panel')},
{down = 3001, up = 3001, cockpit_device_id = 1 , value_down = 1.0, value_up = 0.0, name = _('APU Gen Power 2-Pos ON/OFF'), category = _('Electrical power control panel')},
{down = 3004, up = 3004, cockpit_device_id = 1 , value_down = 1.0, value_up = 0.0, name = _('AC Gen Left Power 2-Pos ON/OFF'), category = _('Electrical power control panel')},
{down = 3005, up = 3005, cockpit_device_id = 1 , value_down = 1.0, value_up = 0.0, name = _('AC Gen Right Power 2-Pos ON/OFF'), category = _('Electrical power control panel')},
{down = 3004, cockpit_device_id = 1 , value_down = 1.0, name = _('AC Gen Left Power ON'), category = _('Electrical power control panel')},
{down = 3004, cockpit_device_id = 1 , value_down = 0.0, name = _('AC Gen Left Power OFF'), category = _('Electrical power control panel')},
{down = 3005, cockpit_device_id = 1 , value_down = 1.0, name = _('AC Gen Right Power ON'), category = _('Electrical power control panel')},
{down = 3005, cockpit_device_id = 1 , value_down = 0.0, name = _('AC Gen Right Power OFF'), category = _('Electrical power control panel')},
{down = 3006, up = 3006, cockpit_device_id = 1 , value_down = 1.0, value_up = 0.0, name = _('Battery Power 2-Pos ON/OFF'), category = _('Electrical power control panel')},

{down = iCommandPlaneLGPLandLight, up = iCommandPlaneLGPLightsOff, name = _('Landing Lights ON/OFF'), category = _('Landing gear panel')},
{down = iCommandPlaneLGPTaxiLight, up = iCommandPlaneLGPLightsOff, name = _('Taxi Lights ON/OFF'), category = _('Landing gear panel')},
{down = 3029, pressed = 3029, cockpit_device_id = 38, value_down = 1.0, value_pressed = 0.0, name = _('Anti-Skid Button ON'), category = _('Landing gear panel')},
{down = 3028, pressed = 3028, cockpit_device_id = 38, value_down = 1.0, value_pressed = 0.0, name = _('Anti-Skid Button OFF'), category = _('Landing gear panel')},
{down = 3029, pressed = 3029,up = 3028, up = 3028, cockpit_device_id = 38, value_down = 1.0, value_pressed = 0.0, value_up = 1.0, value_up = 0.0, name = _('Anti-Skid 2-Pos ON/OFF'), category = _('Landing gear panel')}, -- heureka, this works!

{down = 3012, up = 3012, cockpit_device_id = 49, value_down = 1.0,    value_up = -1.0, name = _('Nose Light 2-Pos switch ON/OFF'), category = _('Lighting Panel')},
{down = 3004, up = 3004, cockpit_device_id = 49, value_down = 1.0,    value_up = -1.0, name = _('Accel & Compass Light 2-Pos Bright/DIM'), category = _('Lighting Panel')},
{down = 3013, up = 3013, cockpit_device_id = 49, value_down = 1.0,    value_up = -1.0, name = _('Signal Lights 2-Pos BRIGHT/DIM'), category = _('Lighting Panel')},
{down = iCommandPlanePositionLightsFlash, up = iCommandPlanePositionLightsOff, name = _('Position Lights FLASH/OFF'), category = _('Lighting Panel')},
{down = iCommandPlanePositionLightsSteady, up = iCommandPlanePositionLightsOff, name = _('Position Lights STEADY/OFF'), category = _('Lighting Panel')},

{down = 3001, up = 3001, cockpit_device_id = 75, value_down = 1.0,    value_up = 0.0, name = _('HMCS Power 2-Pos ON/OFF'), category = _('HMCS Power')},
{down = 3001, up = 3001, cockpit_device_id = 75, value_down = -1.0,    value_up = 0.0, name = _('HMCS Power 2-Pos BAT/OFF'), category = _('HMCS Power')},
{down = 3001, cockpit_device_id = 75, value_down = 1.0,    name = _('HMCS Power ON'), category = _('HMCS Power')},
{down = 3001, cockpit_device_id = 75, value_down = 0.0,    name = _('HMCS Power OFF'), category = _('HMCS Power')},
{down = 3001, cockpit_device_id = 75, value_down = -1.0,    name = _('HMCS Power BAT'), category = _('HMCS Power')},
{down = 3002, cockpit_device_id = 15, value_down = 1.0,    name = _('Elapsed Timer STRT/STP/RST'), category = _('Systems')},
{down = 3001, cockpit_device_id = 75, value_down = -1.0,    name = _('HMCS Power BAT'), category = _('HMCS Power')},
{down = 3010, cockpit_device_id = 39, value_down = 1.0,    name = _('Seat Arm Handle SAFE'), category = _('Systems')},
{down = 3010, cockpit_device_id = 39, value_down = -1.0, name = _('Seat Arm Handle ARM'), category = _('Systems')},
{down = 3010, up = 3010, cockpit_device_id = 39, value_down = -1.0, value_up = 1.0, name = _('Seat Arm Handle ARM 2-Pos ARM/SAFE'), category = _('Systems')},

{down = 3007, cockpit_device_id = 39, value_down = 0.0,    name = _('Canopy CLOSE'), category = _('Systems')},
{down = 3007, cockpit_device_id = 39, value_down = 1.0,    name = _('Canopy OPEN'), category = _('Systems')},
{down = 3007, cockpit_device_id = 39, value_down = 0.5, name = _('Canopy HOLD'), category = _('Systems')},
{down = 3007, up = 3007, cockpit_device_id = 39, value_down = 1.0, value_up = 0.5, name = _('Canopy OPEN/HOLD'), category = _('Systems')},-- for maintained 3-position switch (ON-OFF-ON)
{down = 3007, up = 3007, cockpit_device_id = 39, value_down = 0.0, value_up = 0.5, name = _('Canopy CLOSE/HOLD'), category = _('Systems')},-- for maintained 3-position switch (ON-OFF-ON)
{down = 3007, up = 3007, cockpit_device_id = 39, value_down = 1.0, value_up = 0.0, name = _('Canopy 2-Pos OPEN/CLOSE'), category = _('Systems')},-- for maintained ON/OFF switch

{down = 3016, up = 3016, cockpit_device_id = 36, value_down = -1.0, value_up = 1.0, name = _('Air Refuel Control Lever 2-Pos OPEN/CLOSED'), category = _('Fuel system control panel')},

Note: in some cases the switches in the cockpit are electro/magnetically held. There is no way to guarantee synchronization for these as we do not get feedback from the sim to the button box.

[Hansolo]

The Anti-collision light switch, anti-skid and the 4x SAS switches are magnetic held toogle switches. When applying voltage (originally 28VDC but 12VDC also works) the bat will stay in ON position once manually activated. You can force it back into OFF position by toggling in the other direction. 

If you remove voltage to the coil they will automatically flip back into OFF position.

 

Here is a few older YT I did with them 

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers Solo

[jaylw314]

On 5/8/2021 at 9:00 PM, Caldera said:

 Is the Landing Gear Lever actually a two position switch or is it a two position hydraulic control level? 

 

 

The lever is an electrical switch.  The actual hydraulic gear valve is driven by solenoids switched by the lever.  The lever is actually locked in the down position by a third solenoid when the weight-on-wheels sensor is on, and unlocks to allow the lever up when weight is off the wheels.

[Caldera]

Thanks guys, your feed back is great!

 

I guess I had been too long in digital controls.  Until just now I had never heard of a magnetically maintained switch, but It makes sense in a cockpit.  I knew that there had to be something like that because of the way the switches were acting.

 

Caldera