What is the optimal way to use the R-27ER?

[cobrabase]

Shoot high and then get below your target. If you shoot about 2 or 3K meters above AI then F-pole left/right and nose down while keeping an eye on your targets altitude which is displayed on your HUD then you can get rmax kills quite regularly aginst AI. 2K meters below him shoot do the trick.

 

When should I shoot? Max range? Should I fire one and then another 13 seconds later THEN dive or dive quickly after launching and fire another on the way down?

[Kuky]

let the AI mire at rmax... you then pince and dive... once his missile(s) are out of thrust and start gliding you start climbing and that'll bleed their energy and won't hit you... by this time you got lot closer and are good to fire your ER and again dive to get bellow him (continue pincing) and want your missile track... keep an eye in space where banit is suposed to be (if you're beaming bandid should be just next to canopy frame... watch for the smoke... if you want to make sure bandit is hit fire second ER little after you fire the first one... and keep practicing...

 

Also let your wingman attack 1 guy and you concentrate on the other... usually you'd want to go for the lead and let your wingman take the trailer.

[51GRIZZLY]

You have told us how you engaged the bandits yourself, but haven't told us how you used your AI wingman.

In a 2V2 its crucial to use your wingie effectively.

[Kuky]

ah well, set your wingman to excellent... normally I'd pince him to right... as long as I can kill the first guy and AI winman is keeping the other guy busy you can have enough time to kill the second also. Sometimes the AI is just too stupid and get killed easily so can't completely trust he'll kill the second bandit but most of the time onve you get a kill on the lead you are in 2vs1 engagement and can definitely win the engagement then... you just have to keep practicing and keep calm and not panic even when fired on as panic makes your brain freeze and then you're no longer thiking properly and usually that gets you killed... does for me anyway :)

[cobrabase]

You have told us how you engaged the bandits yourself, but haven't told us how you used your AI wingman.

In a 2V2 its crucial to use your wingie effectively.

 

I usually take the leader and my wingman takes his follower (who technically in real life IS the real leader).

[GGTharos]

Technically (and factually) the guy in front is the leader in real life. If you see a guy sticking out of the formation (forward) you assume its the leader and you pick on him first.

 

I usually take the leader and my wingman takes his follower (who technically in real life IS the real leader).

[Cosmonaut]

When should I shoot? Max range? Should I fire one and then another 13 seconds later THEN dive or dive quickly after launching and fire another on the way down?

 

After you shoot your first shot start loosing altitude while turning away from the bandit but don't panic and start diving or turning too aggressively, at this point you don't need anything greater than a 4G turn.

 

When to shoot is tricky, it depends on the mission and altitude of the engagement. But usually if I'm getting jammed then I'll burn through before I shoot and then turn in a little later and shoot again so my second shot is a look up situation. You want to time your shots and position yourself so the target is always defensive and can't shoot back at you.

 

As for which one to engage, if it's a 2v2 situation, then you should always engage the bandit that's gunning for you. After you set your wingy to pincer watch the hud and you'll see either the Matrix split or the targets move apart if they're not jamming and then lock the one going for your wingy and hit the engage my target button "[", then lock the target gunning for you and head in for the engagement.

[Jenk]

I honestly use them just as a distraction/preventative measure to stop them firing slammers at me, and rely on ET, r-73 or gun when I am close.

[Boberro]

I fire and prey to hit plane by this junk, sometimes without LA sometimes with half close, it depends from situation which I want to force on enemy.

[Case]

Fighting with and against the AI in LockOn is fun, but if you do it a lot, you will get to know how they react. Human pilots typically are much more unpredictable, having both smarter and dumber moves than the AI. Nevertheless, fighting against the AI is an excellent way to get to know the strengths and weaknesses of the different aircraft and their weapons systems in the game.

 

Fighting with the AI is probably not so good an idea, because you cannot really control and work with him as you could with a fellow human pilot. Human pilots would and should return frequent updates on his actions and those of his bandit (enaging, notching, defensive, bandit range, aspect and altitude, etc...). Hence, fighting a 2vs2 against the AI with an AI wingman is probably more like a 2vs1+1.

 

Still, these are good exersizes to train your BVR and situational awareness.

[Jenk]

and for those of us without the connectivity to play multiplayer, it's all we have :)

[Kuky]

One thing I like to use if doing some quick missions offline is to set AI to Random skill... this brings bit on unexpectiveness into what the oponent(s) will do which is good for you to train to "read" your oponents mind (AI skill in this matter) and think on the fly what to do next. If you can predict what your enemy will do you have a very good advantage there because you can then plan ahead... Random skill on AI brings more realism into engagement as you never know what kind of enemy you will come accross.

[Case]

and for those of us without the connectivity to play multiplayer, it's all we have :)

Ah, my sincerest apologies for forgetting this. :doh:

 

Still, have you tried a small mission like two human players against 2 AI pilots? If the mission is small and the pings not too high, it should be possible.

[RedTiger]

Fighting with and against the AI in LockOn is fun, but if you do it a lot, you will get to know how they react. Human pilots typically are much more unpredictable, having both smarter and dumber moves than the AI. Nevertheless, fighting against the AI is an excellent way to get to know the strengths and weaknesses of the different aircraft and their weapons systems in the game.

 

Fighting with the AI is probably not so good an idea, because you cannot really control and work with him as you could with a fellow human pilot. Human pilots would and should return frequent updates on his actions and those of his bandit (enaging, notching, defensive, bandit range, aspect and altitude, etc...). Hence, fighting a 2vs2 against the AI with an AI wingman is probably more like a 2vs1+1.

 

Still, these are good exersizes to train your BVR and situational awareness.

 

Bolded for emphasis! You can do things to negate the short-commings of the enemy AI and you can do things to make it more challenging for yourself. What you cannot do easily is use AI wingman for anything other than very rudimentary tactics. Thats something that I don't really see changing any time soon, unfortunately. :( The best I've ever managed was sending out one element as a diversion while me and wingy go around and ambush them from another side. Even that was a struggle. You can get creative with WPs since you can send wingmen to them, but you're still working very hard for something very simple.

[Frostie]

Its not just LO as Falcon has this problem to a lesser degree too.

Sadly this present time and forseeable future the AI is always going to be second best in anything.

[RedTiger]

Its not just LO as Falcon has this problem to a lesser degree too.

Sadly this present time and forseeable future the AI is always going to be second best in anything.

 

Falcon has more commands you can give, but there are two things that I like that work particularly well. First, you can issue commands to each member of your flight individualy, all at once, or to each element. Issuing commands to each element is what is handy and is missing from LOMAC. As of now you have to issue orders to everyone or each one at a time.

 

Second, you have a command which is basically an "auto-sort". You can lock or bug a bandit in a group, give your flight this command and they will attempt to sort out all contacts in the group except the one you have chosen. They are far from perfect (many times you'll see two guys going for one bandit if you watch the ACMI), but its very, very useful, quick, and easy.

 

LOMAC has a command called "attack my enemy". I keep meaning to experiment with that one and watch the ACMI to see if your wing man will indeed attack other contacts besides the one you've locked.

[cobrabase]

I did well last night.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prL0aNfCrVE

[Case]

Very nice video Cobrabase, good work! :thumbup:

 

One comment. The R-27R on the MiG-29A's has less range and speed than your R-27ER's. Hence, if you were to fire your ER the instant he fires his R, yours should and would hit first if you kept on flying straight into each other. However, if you would put the bandit at your gimbals directly after you fired your ER, his 27R launched at Rmax will never reach you. Since you launched your ER well inside Rmax, it would have enough energy to reach him if he did the same. In order to stay alive, the bandit would have to be more defensive than you, and either notch your missile and/or spoof it with chaff or go completely defensive and turn away. Chances are he'll lose lock on you. Once he is notching or defensive, keep him that way by firing more ER's until you hit him or are in range for a R-73 (or an R-27ET, but this topic is about R-27ER's). The AI is pretty good at spoofing ER's launched from long and medium ranges, so don't be upset if it seems they all miss.

 

Also, do you have tacview? Tacview is the best training tool around and it will give you a lot of insight what happens during the fight.

[cobrabase]

Very nice video Cobrabase, good work! :thumbup:

 

One comment. The R-27R on the MiG-29A's has less range and speed than your R-27ER's. Hence, if you were to fire your ER the instant he fires his R, yours should and would hit first if you kept on flying straight into each other. However, if you would put the bandit at your gimbals directly after you fired your ER, his 27R launched at Rmax will never reach you. Since you launched your ER well inside Rmax, it would have enough energy to reach him if he did the same. In order to stay alive, the bandit would have to be more defensive than you, and either notch your missile and/or spoof it with chaff or go completely defensive and turn away. Chances are he'll lose lock on you. Once he is notching or defensive, keep him that way by firing more ER's until you hit him or are in range for a R-73 (or an R-27ET, but this topic is about R-27ER's). The AI is pretty good at spoofing ER's launched from long and medium ranges, so don't be upset if it seems they all miss.

 

Also, do you have tacview? Tacview is the best training tool around and it will give you a lot of insight what happens during the fight.

 

Heck yeah I have tacview! Without it I'd be totally screwed!! I know about the extended range of the ER. I'm taking away my jammers tonight and see how I do.

[Cosmonaut]

You get an A grade for your commentary :thumbup:.

 

But as has been stated you can out range the the Mig so don't fly strait at him once you've fire becasue you're just getting into your opponents firing range.

[ScEBlack1]

Cobra was that your voice in the video, that was some funny commentary, i loved it, especially about your wingmans a??. Good Job.

[cobrabase]

You get an A grade for your commentary :thumbup:.

 

But as has been stated you can out range the the Mig so don't fly strait at him once you've fire becasue you're just getting into your opponents firing range.

 

If my language is offensive I apologize. :music_whistling:

Frankly... I think I sound like I'm constipated on the toilet. LOL!

 

I wasn't able to fly last night but tonight... heh heh heh... I conquer all. I'm getting better but I need the practice.

 

Oh, Cosmonaut! Thanks for the incredible screen mods! You rock!

Edited October 10, 2008 by cobrabase

[cobrabase]

Cobra was that your voice in the video, that was some funny commentary, i loved it, especially about your wingmans a??. Good Job.

 

Yeah... I don't know about you're wingman but mine have been known to do some pretty stupid things. :joystick::mad:

 

I was actually shot down by my wingman's R-77 once!!! Bad luck but still....weird.

 

*I know that the AI needs work but I don't mind it.

[RedTiger]

LOL@ your commentary! :megalol:

 

I'll have to remember the "show me your butt" one! :rotflmao:

 

Anyhoo...not much to add that hasn't been said before. There's a lot to be said for doing things with bandits on your radar gimbals, and by that I don't even mean having them locked, just keeping your radar pointed to the side and them towards the edge of it. It buys you extra time for all sorts of stuff.

Edited October 10, 2008 by RedTiger

[104th_Crunch]

If my language is offensive I apologize. :music_whistling:

Frankly... I think I sound like I'm constipated on the toilet. LOL!

 

Dude, I could feel your pain :) It's like you were experiencing those G's yourself!