Lock-On Sequel . . .

[SUBS17]

I think you are wrong, the pits and models are fine. The only difference is that they have to be updated to include clickable switches and also expanded for full control of the avionics. It would be a case of adding to it rather than starting from scratch. All the aircraft models should be fine, I have yet to see better models anywhere else.

[VMFA-Blaze]

I think that Subs is very close to what must likely be the future of this flight sim......

 

Clickable cockpits maybe, I've seen posts here that seem to mention that this is being considered....

 

But as far as changeing the engine and actually starting from scratch I'm sorry but personally I don't agree that this will be the direction......

 

For example Flanker 2.51 still existes in part in Lockon and most likely will exist in the next endevor as well....

 

ED seems to use a lot of the original code and expands on it.......

 

But I think that you can rest assured that you'll see all of the aircraft sporting the AFM......

 

And of course they're will most likely be controlable vehicles in one form or another to add yet another facet to the ground war part of the sim......

 

~S~

 

Blaze

[Skywall23]

The CAS direction which the sim took is very cool. The bad thing about having a good CAS sim is that air combat is a bit neglected. For example, we still dont have precise missile flight characteristics.

 

But Ill thrust ED either ways. :)

[MBot]

I think you are wrong, the pits and models are fine. The only difference is that they have to be updated to include clickable switches and also expanded for full control of the avionics. It would be a case of adding to it rather than starting from scratch. All the aircraft models should be fine, I have yet to see better models anywhere else.

 

 

Well, try to remember how the cockpit and externel models of flightsims looked 4 years ago. They might have been state of the art then, but now they are outdated.

It's is the same with ED's next sim IMO. Now the models look great, but in 4 years ? And I don't expect the next sim anytime sooner ( 1 year till LOMAC 1.2, then perhaps 3 years development for the next ). The standarts in computer games rise so incredible fast. Also technology like 6DOF will mean they have to redo all the cockpits from scratch anyway ( the current cockpits are only viewable from one POV ).

 

Also remember the trendemous task to bulid the AFMs. Someone close to ED somewhen said how long it takes to build one. Was it 6-12 month ? Would ED invest 2 years development time just to update the 4 remaining flightmodels from Lock On ? Unlikely.

 

Of course ED can bulid up on existing code from Lock On. They already have a radar model, physic model, the basics from the graphic engine etc. But I see this more of the underlaying basics to build content on, the enigine. Someone utilicing the Unreal 2 engine dosn't use Unreal 2 content aswell ( because the content might be outdated since long, but the engine is still fit and a good base to start work on ).

 

I am still convinced, if the next project requires a Su-27 or F-15 because the scenario requires one, then they will have to bulid them largely from scratch, just like they would have to bulid a new F/A-18 or Mirage 2000 ( or whatever ).

[britgliderpilot]

The CAS direction which the sim took is very cool. The bad thing about having a good CAS sim is that air combat is a bit neglected. For example, we still dont have precise missile flight characteristics.

 

They're on the list :wink:

 

 

There will probably never be the perfect flight sim . . . . just look forward to what we'll get in the future :)

[Skywall23]

The CAS direction which the sim took is very cool. The bad thing about having a good CAS sim is that air combat is a bit neglected. For example, we still dont have precise missile flight characteristics.

 

They're on the list :wink:

 

 

There will probably never be the perfect flight sim . . . . just look forward to what we'll get in the future :)

 

Im not worried brit. I thrust Eagle Dynamics. :)

[SUBS17]

[quote="MBot

Well, try to remember how the cockpit and externel models of flightsims looked 4 years ago. They might have been state of the art then, but now they are outdated.

It's is the same with ED's next sim IMO. Now the models look great, but in 4 years ? And I don't expect the next sim anytime sooner ( 1 year till LOMAC 1.2, then perhaps 3 years development for the next ). The standarts in computer games rise so incredible fast. Also technology like 6DOF will mean they have to redo all the cockpits from scratch anyway ( the current cockpits are only viewable from one POV ).

 

Also remember the trendemous task to bulid the AFMs. Someone close to ED somewhen said how long it takes to build one. Was it 6-12 month ? Would ED invest 2 years development time just to update the 4 remaining flightmodels from Lock On ? Unlikely.

 

Of course ED can bulid up on existing code from Lock On. They already have a radar model, physic model, the basics from the graphic engine etc. But I see this more of the underlaying basics to build content on, the enigine. Someone utilicing the Unreal 2 engine dosn't use Unreal 2 content aswell ( because the content might be outdated since long, but the engine is still fit and a good base to start work on ).

 

I am still convinced, if the next project requires a Su-27 or F-15 because the scenario requires one, then they will have to bulid them largely from scratch, just like they would have to bulid a new F/A-18 or Mirage 2000 ( or whatever ).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They would probably use their previous work as a template to make the next generation. Added to that things like more detailed graphics in certain areas it would take alot less time than starting completely from scratch. As for 6DOF, isn't that going to be in 1.2? Considering that the next sim will be multirole aircraft I think the biggest hurdle will be a/g radar. As for AFM, maybe likewise a template of some sort would speed it up in development. Also another hurdle would be research into the actual aircraft and finding a pilot to test it who has flown many hours in it. What ever aircraft they make I hope that they go crazy and make lots of add-ons. Branch out and make Tank Sims and Ships, helos, Submarines hell even FPS. If not then have a MP connection that accepts other companies MP connection to support such a system. 8)

[Skywall23]

Also remember the trendemous task to bulid the AFMs. Someone close to ED somewhen said how long it takes to build one. Was it 6-12 month ? Would ED invest 2 years development time just to update the 4 remaining flightmodels from Lock On ? Unlikely.

Although it is true that building AFMs is hard, the knowledge that ED aquired in making the one for Flaming Cliffs is precious. It will make the time to build one, faster.

 

Having AFMs to all planes is a must, since otherwise we will be playing an incomplete game.

[Kula66]

If the next Sim is going to take a few years, ED need to keep the money coming in ... So I would expect to see a couple of AFM a/c per year :) Plus a few new features ... keep us happy ... perhaps a re-work of the US radar, flyable F-18 ... oops sorry, dreaming again :)

 

James

[SUBS17]

Also remember the trendemous task to bulid the AFMs. Someone close to ED somewhen said how long it takes to build one. Was it 6-12 month ? Would ED invest 2 years development time just to update the 4 remaining flightmodels from Lock On ? Unlikely.

Although it is true that building AFMs is hard, the knowledge that ED aquired in making the one for Flaming Cliffs is precious. It will make the time to build one, faster.

 

Having AFMs to all planes is a must, since otherwise we will be playing an incomplete game.

 

 

 

Thats actually Mbots quote, I've made it further apart to separate them. Just like to point out that aside the Multirole that they are planning any other aircraft would likely be a separate add-on. At least thats how I view it. eg say by some miracle they model a Hornet and release it. Then follow it up with the Su33 or Mig29k. The Su33 would likely be nearly a whole new aircraft although it would slightly resmble the Lockon version. If its going to be fully modeled then it would have everything to rampstart and IFF. Fully modeled means every switch, plus the AFM. 8)

[MBot]

I am sorry I dig out this topic again, but I have another suggestion for a future ED sim and I guess these fit best in here.

 

The Arab-Israeli wars 1967-1973 ( 6 Days, Attrition and Yom Kippur ).

 

This would be an aewsom scenario that surprisingly has been largely ignored in the ( hardcore ) sim world.

What makes that scenario so interesting is the style of the air combat. On one hand, it was still up close and personal. The cannon was still the primary air-air weapon, slowly beeing replaced by IR AAMs. These AAMs needed great effort to achieve a good missle lock and launch geometry. BFM was still about maneuvering while now planes are lobbing all aspect heaters at each others in the first head-on. On the other hand, the scenario features powerfull mach 2 jetfighters that we all love so much ( otherwise we would fly ww2 sims ).

That combination of new technology and old tactics is what was in my opinion the most interesting form of air combat. And one thing that shouldn't be disregarded is the hugh fanbase of WW2 style dogfights that could be interested for such a sim. And lets not forget the pure sexyness of those jets :)

 

The early Arab-Isreali wars feature a very nice and quite ballanced planeset. The all time classics Mirage III and MiG-21, MiG-17 and 19, the F-4 and more.

While in reality IDF/AF Mirages reigned surpreme above the MiGs, even israeli top aces said that the MiG-21 was the superior airplane in many respects. So in the sim it wouldn't have to be onesided ( we can live with some historical inaccurancy here I think ).

For those that can't live without BVR combat, there is the F-4 Phantom II that was introduced in the Attrition War that would add much depth to the sim, beeing a two seater and a general quite complex weapon system ( think ED quality avionics and flight model here ).

 

From the developers point of view, such a scenario would be favourable, as it isn't as complex as perhaps a modern Taiwan theater would be ( wich would basicaly be as complex as Falcon 4.0s Korea ). Strong points would be:

-relative small theater

-relativ sparely populated, still interesting terrain ( not flat deserts )

-relative simple avionics ( excluding F-4 )

 

 

I know that this is quite a unusual suggestion, as everybody is expecting a 'today' sim from ED. But it hasn't been written in stone that ED exclusivly has to build 'today' sims. With the Su-25T and Ka-50 ED already showed that they are ready to go alternative paths and perhaps there are guys at ED that like the 60s and 70s aircombat as much as I do.

 

 

P.S.

I am aware of the existance of Strike Fighters, but I consider that game a completly different league. Therefore I consider the 60s/70s timeframe to be virtualy untouched by serious flightsims.

[SUBS17]

The Arab/Israeli war would make a good mod, I think you can get the Israeli theatre and campaigns for Falcon 4.

[44th Eagle]

Great topic.....

 

LOMAC is a good sim but if ED wants to go to the next level in flighter sims I would like to see some/ all of these things in the next product.

 

1) much improved AI is a must

2) a/g radar for strike aircraft for SEAD is needed big time.

3) Strike Aircraft!!!!!!! F15E, how can you leave out the Strike Eagle?

3) A new mission editor system with many more options. This might have to be rebuilt from the ground up.

4) Carrier Ops

5) Expanded map...more countrys in the theater of operations!

6) Neutral countrys and neutral borders that will not or will let you fly there air space depending on the politics.

a. Fighter aircraft that CAP their airspace and are politcal neutral unless forced to engage.

b. Neutral aircraft..like airliners, private jets, little props planes.

7) A realistic IFF system or lack of. Depending on the contact...all contacts should be

 

This is just some aditions I would like to see. Of course improved avioics and missile logic as well as ground based threats need to be vastly improved.

 

Only time will tell....Im hopeful that ED will strive to push their work to next level!

 

Keep up the good work ED!

[MBot]

Ok, here is another one:

 

The Iraq-Iran airwar 1980-1988

 

That is a conflict that would also include some great material for a flightsim. The Iran-Iraq airwar isn't that well known and would be something as Forgotten Battle was for the propsim genre. I myselfe have only recently started to read more in depth about it.

 

One of the first aspects that jumps to the eye is the very interesting planeset of the scenario. The star on the iraqi side is the excellent Mirage F.1EQ, yet another possibility to fly a member of the sexy Mirage familiy ( those Mirages are everywhere, aren't they :) ). The workhorses of the IrAF were MiG-23, MiG-21 and Su-22. There were even some egyptian Mirage 5 guestplaying on the iraqi side.

For the Iranians we have F-5s and quite a bunch of F-4 Phantom IIs, yet another classic. And of course there is the star of the theater, the F-14A Tomact ( scoring over 150 victorys in IRIAF service ). If you want to fly Tomcats, thats the theater for you :)

 

The fascination of that conflict lies in the fact that you don't have one superpower crushing some 3rd world country, like we have it these days ( the most boring scenario I can think of for a flightsim ). Iraq and Iran fought a 8 years long bloody war, that alone shows the ballance between those two. While beeing a horrible experience for the people of both countrys, a long and hard fought war is the ideal background for a combat sim. Plus the conflict is a historical one, wich in my opinion always are superior over a fictious one of the same quality.

[Ice]

My answer is allways the same. One Day we WILL See the F18 Hornet as flyable. I know it to be true.

[SUBS17]

Ok, here is another one:

 

The Iraq-Iran airwar 1980-1988

 

That is a conflict that would also include some great material for a flightsim. The Iran-Iraq airwar isn't that well known and would be something as Forgotten Battle was for the propsim genre. I myselfe have only recently started to read more in depth about it.

 

One of the first aspects that jumps to the eye is the very interesting planeset of the scenario. The star on the iraqi side is the excellent Mirage F.1EQ, yet another possibility to fly a member of the sexy Mirage familiy ( those Mirages are everywhere, aren't they :) ). The workhorses of the IrAF were MiG-23, MiG-21 and Su-22. There were even some egyptian Mirage 5 guestplaying on the iraqi side.

For the Iranians we have F-5s and quite a bunch of F-4 Phantom IIs, yet another classic. And of course there is the star of the theater, the F-14A Tomact ( scoring over 150 victorys in IRIAF service ). If you want to fly Tomcats, thats the theater for you :)

 

The fascination of that conflict lies in the fact that you don't have one superpower crushing some 3rd world country, like we have it these days ( the most boring scenario I can think of for a flightsim ). Iraq and Iran fought a 8 years long bloody war, that alone shows the ballance between those two. While beeing a horrible experience for the people of both countrys, a long and hard fought war is the ideal background for a combat sim. Plus the conflict is a historical one, wich in my opinion always are superior over a fictious one of the same quality.

 

That would also be a good mod, but I like to think on a much bigger scale. Thats why I think the China vs Taiwan scenario is the way to go. You're right though the Iran - Iraq war was a conflict that not much is known about. Likewise the Etriean war, a much smaller conflict that involved Ukrainian vs Russian hardware.

[VapoR]

If you check the news section of lockon.ru there is a link to an interview with Tishin Igor. In in some of our questions are answered about the sequel to Lock-on.

 

OGL: A little about the future of a series. What, you do count, aircraft will be in the future versions Lock on?

 

Is planned the full translation of all existing in the game aircraft into the new physical model, the development of aircraft F -16, MiG-29K, helicopters KA -50, Mi-28N, Ah-6в Apache, and a whole series of others.

 

So if I'm reading correctly: AFM for all existing flyables plus the new ones!!