Bug or Feature?

[massdriver]

Hi guys,

 

and many thanks for your help in advance. I have noticed quite a few things that do not work as expected with the F-16C or in general in DCS: World. As I am not sure if any or all of these are: (a) unreported bugs, or (b) bugs that are already known and being worked on, or (c) user error on my part, I was wondering if you could help me shed some light on this to classify the below into (a), (b), or (c). Here is the list:

 

1) the CCRP is often off to the left or right, i.e. flying straight towards a steerpoint and seeing it in the HUD, the vertical CCRP line will be drawn to the left or right of it, and aligning it with the flight path marker then consequently makes you not fly directly over the steerpoint anymore

 

2) possibly related to #1, dropping bombs with CCRP, and aligning the flight path marker perfectly with the vertical CCRP line, always makes them hit "to the left" of the target, whereas left is meant as in relative to the direction of your flight path

 

3) when playing a coop multiplayer game with two players with the same coalition, the ILS system of an airport sometimes does not work for player 1 while it works for player 2, for the same airport, i.e. it just seems to be off for them

 

4) similar to #3, again in a two player coop multiplayer match, one player is able to contact and talk to the tower, but the other isn't (frequencies checked to be equal etc.)

 

5) JTAC's sometimes do not respond to any request via radio, even though they are confirmed alive, close-by, and set to the right frequency (we have tested this with four different JTACs on the same map, each with their own frequency, different call-sign etc., but none responded)

 

6) Maverick AUTO hand-off does not work, i.e. one always has to make the Maverick SOI after the hand-off and also lock in the target there or it won't have a lock, and won't fire (it remains stuck in REL when firing, with a flashing flight path marker, as there is no lock) - it does not make a difference whether AUTO or MAN is set on the TGP

 

7) the F-16 radar seems to be enormously ineffective and almost never spots anything unless it's right in front of the plane and in close range (<5nm) - which we have tested quite a bit. For some reason, this is not an issue in the training missions

 

8 ) TGP laser fire first detent, which is supposed to fire the laser for 30 seconds, as per manual, does nothing / does not work

 

Thank you very much for your help, I am looking forward to your responses. Should you agree that something in this list sounds odd and is not already known as a bug, I will be happy to provide track files and more info on it.

 

Edited July 25, 2021 by massdriver
8 ) turns into smiley face

[Florence201]

1&2 - Wind drift. Dobber right on CNI to see winds aloft

 

3&4 - Which map?

 

5 - trk file needed to check against

 

6 - are you boresighting Mavs at start up

 

7 - Not seen this. I can see fighters at 60nm in MP

 

8 - Not sure that’s implemented yet. 

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, 

 

its best to report issues individually and with support track replay evidence, things can get confusing pretty quickly otherwise. 

 

We have a guide for reporting issues here 
 

thanks

[Dawgboy]

11 hours ago, massdriver said:

@massdriver

8 ) TGP laser fire first detent, which is supposed to fire the laser for 30 seconds, as per manual, does nothing / does not work

If your HOTAS trigger supports 1st detent and you have a proper keybind, the laser should at least fire, if armed.  I can't confirm 30 seconds...I think I've seen it fire the entire time I hold it down.

[massdriver]

Hi guys,

 

Thanks so much for your responses. Let me address the things you mentioned:

 

@Florence201

 

10 hours ago, Florence201 said:

1&2 - Wind drift. Dobber right on CNI to see winds aloft

Interesting, could you let me know what that is supposed to do? I have tried switching it on and off, but did not notice any difference when using CCRP (I have attached a .trk file to this post where I am trying this as well, more about the track below.) Please note that in the attached track file, I was not able to reproduce the "bombs always drop to the left of the steerpoint" behavior, which happens for me at times that appear random.

 

10 hours ago, Florence201 said:

3&4 - Which map?

All on Caucasus. #4 can be seen in my track file below. The tower only ever responds when I start taxiing or take off by myself (when it kind of retroactively clears me for both).

 

10 hours ago, Florence201 said:

5 - trk file needed to check against

Sure, I will create one a bit later today and provide it here.

 

10 hours ago, Florence201 said:

6 - are you boresighting Mavs at start up

Yes, the entire Maverick AUTO vs MAN including ground boresighting is done in the track file below.

 

10 hours ago, Florence201 said:

7 - Not seen this. I can see fighters at 60nm in MP

I will aim to provide a track file for this later today as well.

 

10 hours ago, Florence201 said:

8 - Not sure that’s implemented yet. 

It appears that it is not. I still need to try whether it does so in CCIP mode. If so, I am wondering why it would not work in CCRP but only in CCIP...

 

 

@Dawgboy

5 hours ago, Dawgboy said:

If your HOTAS trigger supports 1st detent and you have a proper keybind, the laser should at least fire, if armed.  I can't confirm 30 seconds...I think I've seen it fire the entire time I hold it down.

It does fire and work, but I need to hold it all the time, which can be a bit impractical while maneuvering the airline over the drop zone. I was wondering about the Second Detent firing of the laser, which is supposed to automatically fire it for 30 seconds (at least in CCIP mode, as per the manual on page 178).

 

Bug_or_Feature_Track_1.trk

Oh, and I forgot to mention:

 

9) The HUDs always seems to need a brightness adjustment anew when each page is visited for the first time. This can also be seen on the attached track.

 

Thanks for your help.

[massdriver]

...and:

 

10) When "starting from parking hot", something is very wrong with the GPS. Note how in the attached track file, I look at the coordinates of ramp 21 on Kusaiti. In the top left corner it reads that they are N 42 10 14 / E 42 28 08, which I then enter as steerpoint 1. Flying to that steerpoint then leads me somewhere else, somewhere significantly south of the airport. My intent was to demonstrate the CCRP "bombs drop to the left" issue by aiming at the center of ramp 21, but then this GPS issue popped up. I will try to create another track file for the CCRP issue.

 

--> Update: I realized that I made a slight mistake by not properly converting the GPS seconds to decimal minutes, but nonetheless this should not have caused the steerpoint to be that far off (I tested this afterwards with the correct decimal coordinates and the coordinates I entered, "N 42 10.140' E 42 28.080'" would still be relatively close to ramp 21, and not as far off as the steerpoint that can be seen in the track file).

Edited July 25, 2021 by massdriver
Update

[massdriver]

Hi, I've just uploaded the next track file. It shows two of the aforementioned things:

- None of my four JTACs responds (#5 above)

- setting a steering point to valid GPS coordinates flies me there, but the GPS information shown on the HUD is completely off (extreme case of #1 above)

 

Thanks for your feedback in advance!

Bug_or_Feature_Track_2.trk

[SFJackBauer]

6 hours ago, massdriver said:

which is supposed to automatically fire it for 30 seconds (at least in CCIP mode, as per the manual on page 178).

Which manual?

 

Also, are you on the latest beta or are you on stable?

 

6 hours ago, massdriver said:

10) When "starting from parking hot", something is very wrong with the GPS. Note how in the attached track file, I look at the coordinates of ramp 21 on Kusaiti. In the top left corner it reads that they are N 42 10 14 / E 42 28 08, which I then enter as steerpoint 1. Flying to that steerpoint then leads me somewhere else, somewhere significantly south of the airport. My intent was to demonstrate the CCRP "bombs drop to the left" issue by aiming at the center of ramp 21, but then this GPS issue popped up. I will try to create another track file for the CCRP issue.

 

You dont have to start from parking in order to test CCRP. You are actually confusing yourself and confusing us by trying to mix too many things into a single test.

 

Make a mission where you spawn alone in the air, no wind, put a waypoint 10 miles away and drop bombs. Check if they hit to the left of the target.

 

If that works, then you change one thing at a time (start from parking hot, then after that cold startup, then add wind etc)

Edited July 26, 2021 by SFJackBauer

[Falconeer]

12 hours ago, massdriver said:

Yes, the entire Maverick AUTO vs MAN including ground boresighting is done in the track file below.

 

I was wondering about the Second Detent firing of the laser, which is supposed to automatically fire it for 30 seconds

 

9) The HUDs always seems to need a brightness adjustment anew when each page is visited for the first time. This can also be seen on the attached track.

 

I would strongly advise to boresight in the air. It's far easier to fine tune the mavericks to the same spot as the TGP. Yes, it can be done from the ground, but it's not optimal in DCS.

 

Second Detent, does nothing for the laser. It's gun trigger only or camera pod recording. First trigger Detent is what you are looking for. On the laser page, you can change the "lase time", but I don't think it's implemented yet.

 

Regarding the HUD, I think you mean MFD. The 2 screen above your knees. There is indeed a know bug regarding the brightness 

[WHOGX5]

12 hours ago, massdriver said:

The tower only ever responds when I start taxiing or take off by myself (when it kind of retroactively clears me for both).

This sounds like you're definitely tuned to the right radio freq but you're making your calls using the wrong radio. There are bindings for making calls on the UHF and VHF radio separately and you have to use the radio that's tuned to the tower for the tower to receive your call. In DCS, if the tower doesn't receive any requests from you they will automatically give you clearance when you start moving in order to alert other pilots to your actions.

[5ephir0th]

Take into account that not all versions of Mav that Viper carries support Hand Off feature, what Mav are you using?

 

No problems here with the radar, can find targets at 60-70 nm, hot and cold

[massdriver]

@SFJackBauer

Thanks for your reponse.

 

10 hours ago, SFJackBauer said:

Which manual?

This one: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/downloads/documentation/viper_flight_manual_en/

 

10 hours ago, SFJackBauer said:

Also, are you on the latest beta or are you on stable?

I am not sure, how can I tell? I am using the Steam version FYI.

 

10 hours ago, SFJackBauer said:

You dont have to start from parking in order to test CCRP. You are actually confusing yourself and confusing us by trying to mix too many things into a single test.

I can see your point. However, the aim was to not yet create single tests for each of the 10 items, as I am trying to find which of the described issues are bugs and which are features that I may not understand properly. There is a limit to the time I can spend in DCS, as well, for real-world reasons. If you watch the track, even if it is not perfect, you will still see something very weird going on with the GPS which should be curious in any case. The problem is that some (perceived) bugs can be hard to reproduce as they appear at seemingly random times, just as with the GPS in track 1 that I uploaded. As I work my way forward and with more information collected become able to hone in more closely on any particular oddity, I will provide a single test that isolates the issue.

 

 

@Falconeer

 

5 hours ago, Falconeer said:

I would strongly advise to boresight in the air. It's far easier to fine tune the mavericks to the same spot as the TGP. Yes, it can be done from the ground, but it's not optimal in DCS.

Interesting, thanks for the feedback!

 

5 hours ago, Falconeer said:

Regarding the HUD, I think you mean MFD. The 2 screen above your knees. There is indeed a know bug regarding the brightness 

Indeed that's what I meant. Thanks, good to know it's a known issue.

 

 

@WHOGX5

 

5 hours ago, WHOGX5 said:

This sounds like you're definitely tuned to the right radio freq but you're making your calls using the wrong radio. There are bindings for making calls on the UHF and VHF radio separately and you have to use the radio that's tuned to the tower for the tower to receive your call. In DCS, if the tower doesn't receive any requests from you they will automatically give you clearance when you start moving in order to alert other pilots to your actions.

Interesting, I will look into this - thx!

 

 

@5ephir0th

 

4 hours ago, 5ephir0th said:

Take into account that not all versions of Mav that Viper carries support Hand Off feature, what Mav are you using?

I tried this with both Mav D and H.

 

4 hours ago, 5ephir0th said:

No problems here with the radar, can find targets at 60-70 nm, hot and cold

The radar issue remains curious. I am wondering if the following is normal. I just placed 8 (unarmed) MiG-29's on a map in a furball, about 40 nm away from me. My radar only sporadically picks them up while I fly directly towards them. Sometimes, not always, it shows one or two of them at the same time, but then they immediately disappear again and so obtaining a lock is difficult. This is in RWS, but I also tested TWS fwiw. The behavior does not change when I come closer to 20 or 10nm. Is this expected and realistic behavior? Thanks.

[massdriver]

5 hours ago, WHOGX5 said:

This sounds like you're definitely tuned to the right radio freq but you're making your calls using the wrong radio. There are bindings for making calls on the UHF and VHF radio separately and you have to use the radio that's tuned to the tower for the tower to receive your call. In DCS, if the tower doesn't receive any requests from you they will automatically give you clearance when you start moving in order to alert other pilots to your actions.

Thank you again for this - I indeed used the wrong radio for the JTACs. So, #5 appears to be solved.  However, sadly the tower at Kutaisi (134.00 on VHF) is still not responding to me on the ground when I request taxiing.

[Falconeer]

45 minutes ago, massdriver said:

The radar issue remains curious. I am wondering if the following is normal. I just placed 8 (unarmed) MiG-29's on a map in a furball, about 40 nm away from me. My radar only sporadically picks them up while I fly directly towards them. Sometimes, not always, it shows one or two of them at the same time, but then they immediately disappear again and so obtaining a lock is difficult. This is in RWS, but I also tested TWS fwiw. The behavior does not change when I come closer to 20 or 10nm. Is this expected and realistic behavior? Thanks.

 

You might want to take a look at this video. It's from the F-18C but applies to the F-16 as well 

 

 

[massdriver]

@Falconeer Thanks a lot for the video link. I watched it and will re-try the same scenario with my newly gained knowledge.

[5ephir0th]

@massdriver share that mission with 8 targets and i tell you if i can lock it

[SFJackBauer]

On 7/25/2021 at 6:35 PM, massdriver said:

which is supposed to automatically fire it for 30 seconds (at least in CCIP mode, as per the manual on page 178).

My manual (and the one you linked on the website) mentions it on page 183, thats why I was confused at first. And yes this has been reported already.

You can search for Bugs in the Bugs subforum here to see if they have been already reported / fixed.

 

6 hours ago, massdriver said:

17 hours ago, SFJackBauer said:

Also, are you on the latest beta or are you on stable?

I am not sure, how can I tell? I am using the Steam version FYI.

 

If you don't know in which version you are, you are probably on Stable. I don't have DCS on Steam but as any steam game you can probably right click it, Properties, Betas and select the latest beta version. Do I recommend you to do it? It depends... all your friends will have to be on the same version, and any server that you connect to. I can tell most of multiplayer servers run open beta because it has the latest stuff, even though it may be more prone to have bugs. But the stable version also have bugs... they just only take more time to get fixed.

 

I say that because you may (I cannot say for certain) be seeing behaviors that were already changed / fixed on latest beta.

[massdriver]

6 hours ago, 5ephir0th said:

@massdriver share that mission with 8 targets and i tell you if i can lock it

It was an on-the-fly mission that I have already discarded by now. After watching the video @Falconeer posted above, I feel motivated to try again and assume that what I experienced was due to my lack of experience with the radar. Should this remain a problem, I'll create another test mission and post if here. I appreciate your offer though.

 

@SFJackBauer Thanks, good to know.

Edited July 27, 2021 by massdriver
neater formatting...