Advanced (maybe) Mission Editor skills

[Arrow48]

Hello everybody.

 

I am not sure this is the right spot to post my questions, but I am quite new both to DCS and the forum.

Leveraging on 30 years of Air Force experience, I have been contacted to develop BFM/AFM and BVR training scenarios. Mission Editor helps, but I am still struggling with some controls.

Cutting to the chase… Is there a way to:

-        Make red air (AI) notch (turn approx 90 degrees off the initial heading) at a pre-determined distance? I get the trigger/moving trigger zone, the problem is the specific action

-        Make red air (AI) commit on condition (eg. X many seconds after the notch or at a specific distance)

-        Make red air (AI) resume CAP if blue air “strays”

I have been dabbing with Combined Arms (it CAN control Air Assets as well as Ground) but it becomes a challenge with multiple units (it’d be easier to play the Flight of the Bumblebee on a piano!)

 

Thanks for your help. By the way: I have zero scripting skills.

 

P.S.: I might repost this in other pages, as I attempt to discover more suitable Topics headers, digging in the forum.

[Cheetah7798]

I've done some mission editing here and there, but am by no means an expert. Not even in the same ballpark. All the same, I'll try to help out.

 

You're getting into manual manipulation of AI behaviour, and that has always been a handful at the best of times. By default, air groups have an advanced action assigned to them that is related to their task (as selected in the drop down box above the aircraft type). This advanced action should be deleted if you want to stand any hope of controlling their behaviour.

 

For your particular issues, it seems your problems can all be addressed by the AI task tab, and the "set AI task" trigger action.

1. Get AI to notch:
Your best bet, without getting into scripting (Which I've only just started to get into myself), would be to set an AI task (one of the tabs near where the armaments tab is; Looks a bit like a clover-leaf highway intersection) to 'set waypoint' to a waypoint that is very far away, and approximately 90 degrees from their initial leg (assuming the route leg never changes). Then use a trigger to 'set AI task' which will cause them to fly to the new waypoint when they reach a certain place, or at a certain time, etc... Yea, it's not pretty, but it may work.

 

2. Commit on condition:
Not sure exactly what you're getting at here, but Assuming you want the AI to do something after notching (switching waypoints as per above), then push another AI task after a set amount of time ("time since flag" condition, for instance, which you could tie to pushing the first task).

 

3. Resume CAP:

Set the CAP enroute task, and push it when a trigger that you define trips; Similar to above.

 

In general, DCS AI tend to do what they want at the end of the day. After executing a CAP task and eliminating any competition, they usually RTB without anything you can do. At least with my limited experience, there is no way to deal with this.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Cheetah7798

[Arrow48]

Quote

1. Get AI to notch:
Your best bet, without getting into scripting (Which I've only just started to get into myself), would be to set an AI task (one of the tabs near where the armaments tab is; Looks a bit like a clover-leaf highway intersection) to 'set waypoint' to a waypoint that is very far away, and approximately 90 degrees from their initial leg (assuming the route leg never changes). Then use a trigger to 'set AI task' which will cause them to fly to the new waypoint when they reach a certain place, or at a certain time, etc... Yea, it's not pretty, but it may work.

May work if do not find a better solution. On the side, I am trying to get acquainted with luas. 

 

Quote

2. Commit on condition:

Say the AI does notch. After 10 seconds, for example, they should turn offensive (point their nose) back on Blue. 

 

OR

 

Return to their original place if Blue breaks off the engagement....

 

Essentially it is not a fun mission but more to help noob blues to learn radar use, weapon selection, switches and stuff.... Picture it as a lesson, not a fun session on a game.

 

Quote

DCS AI tend to do what they want at the end of the day

 

...is exactly what I am trying to take control of. As I said, I can kind of manually control them via Combined Arms, but it is a pain.

 

Thanks for the help, though.

 

 

[sirrah]

Hi @Arrow48

 

Not sure if this will help you, but it might give you some new ideas on how to simulate certain situations.

 

You could consider making use of AI aircraft deactivation and activation. Let me give you an example that for instance Baltic Dragon used for his Raven One campaign (I hope he doesn't mind ) :

• Player aircraft with an AI aircraft of same alliance following him (follow action to create a close formation) to simulate a wingman (let's call this AI aircraft: AI-X from now on)
• At some point, for instance when it enters a zone, have him trigger a flag (e.g. flag 1) and have AI-X stop his follow action and start/continue his own waypoint route (waypoint can be placed in such a way that it looks like the AI-X is making a 90° turn)
• Then, and here's the trick, when AI-X is supposed to commit (for instance on "time since flag 1 = ...), you deactivate AI-X and activate another AI enemy faction aircraft (AI-Y) in the same spot where you expect AI-X to be deactivated (might require some trial and error testing to get this position more or less correct)
• Give AI-Y a CAP role so that it'll commit

 

In the above example Baltic Dragon used faction USA for AI-X and faction USAF-Agressors as AY-Y. This way he was able to simulate a air to air combat practice session between the player and his wingman. After the "fake" dogfight (no live weapons in this case), AI-Y was again deactivated, allied AI-Z was activated and given a follow action again.

Obviously you should make sure that the player is not within visual range or eyes on the AI when it activates/deactivates.

 

 

Again, this is just an example, but it might help you to create certain situations. Additional advantage of using a "fresh" AI aircraft, is that you can manage their fuel states a lot better.

(in one of my own missions I have my wingman deactivate/activate 4 times during the entire mission, otherwise he would most certainly go bingo and crash due to the poor AI fuel management)

Edited July 28, 2021 by sirrah

[Arrow48]

Thank you, @sirrah.

 

I'll give it a try. At this point, I am open to one and all suggestions. 

[sirrah]

9 minutes ago, Arrow48 said:

Thank you, @sirrah.

 

I'll give it a try. At this point, I am open to one and all suggestions. 

 

Don't hesitate to share your mission here when you get stuck. As there are always people willing to take a look and try to help.

[shagrat]

I faced a similar problem to have a fine control of the AI with a training mission for formation/station keeping training.

 

The solution for commanding more detailed turns etc. was the aerobatics task.

I did a sequence for my mission, but it should be possible to have single "turn x degree right/left with y bank angle"-tasks set which you can trigger based on flags/condition.

So you could "force" a 90° turn and based on blue's course or position switch waypoint to previous, if he is cold and "rinse & repeat" in a loop. Or if blue is still hot and closing (inside zone) push task " attack group" and have red commit...

 

You need to test this, though. Just an idea with the options I am aware of.

[Gambit21]

Aerobatics task...requires test, adjust, test...but then everything does.

Unless I find out differently later, I'm staying away from scripting (not because I can't do it) as I want bulletproof (read update proof) as much as possible mission logic.

[Arrow48]

Thank you @shagrat: awesome idea, that of the aero! I need to try that and see if i can make it as a trigger condition. But one step closer!

 

Say... if you know... is there a way to save a sequence and then load it as a AI SET TASK? That would make it possible to command turns at a certain FLAG or time.... I mean, I can see how to save the sequence, just don't know how to make it execute on a trigger

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Arrow48

[shagrat]

There is a "triggered action" tab for the group. Where the Loadout, Radios etc. is set. Looks like a bit like # .

 

Make sure you select "Nothing" as the mission task. Certain actions/tasks are not available when a certain mission task is set. That is likely why it is not showing as triggered action for you.