Resolution modifier (must have feature)

[LucShep]

All this talk about FSR and DLSS, and people ignore a much more simple and urgently needed feature - a Resolution Modifier.

Considering that DCS is extremely demanding, especially graphics wise, It'd be fully expected to see it too in DCS. 

For years now other games have had a Resolution Modifier option for similar performance reasons and, IMO, this is something that should have been there from the start.

Think of a Resolution Modifier in this way... 100% is the same as the current display resolution.

For example, if you play on UltraHD (4K, 2160p) and your FPS is not as great as you would like, then you can lower the resolution using the modifier to, say, 80%. The display is still sharp, but the game runs at about 1728p instead of 2160p. And you gain some nice FPS with it.

And it goes the other way as well. For example, if using potent hardware and on FullHD (1080p) monitor, if set resolution modifier to 160%, one gets better and sharper display.  
All of it done with far better comodity (instant and finer adjustment inside the game, no extra fuss or fiddling), while guaranteeing that everything works like intended (not the case with DCS when changing resolutions manually, see next paragraph). 

 

For DCS this is even more flagrant and in urgent need, as full-screen resolution does not translate well to mouse movement unless it's same as the desktop resolution (i.e, the mouse always works at desktop resolution, not to the one you set in the game - therefore rendering non-desktop resolutions at full screen virtually unusable in DCS).
Which basically means that manually changing resolution in DCS, be it to a lower resolution in hopes to gain performance, or bigger than native to get prettier graphics, is impossible for a game that really needs the mouse to work as desired (interface items, cockpit buttons/commands, etc).

An in-game Resolution Modifier setting will solve any of such problems, which makes it all the more valid.


Here's a couple of different examples (both from recent AAA games), to ilustrate the idea:

Edited August 2, 2021 by LucShep

[SharpeXB]

Running anything other than your screen’s native res is a waste IMO. Running higher = great performance cost without much benefit. Running lower = very poor looking. So it’s better to simply adjust the other graphic settings to achieve whatever balance you like rather than trying to alter the resolution. 
You can do this in the graphics card control panel without any menu needed in the game though.

Edited August 1, 2021 by SharpeXB

[Tippis]

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Running anything other than your screen’s native res is a waste IMO.

So don't use it.

 

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Running higher = great performance cost without much benefit. Running lower = very poor looking.

That's not how modern graphics cards and rendering processes actually work. In fact, they work in almost exactly the opposite way. We're not in the 1990s any more.

 

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

You can do this in the graphics card control panel without any menu needed in the game though.

No, you can't. It creates the exact issues the OP is trying to resolve and remove using a method that is well-known, well-understood, and implemented specifically to circumvent this shortcoming. Also, having to fiddle with the control panel to fix a single game is the ultimate proof that the game needs to be fixed because that level of faff should never be needed.

 

Your absolute dedication to keep DCS from ever improving is quite fascinating.

[LucShep]

4 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Running anything other than your screen’s native res is a waste IMO. Running higher = great performance cost without much benefit. Running lower = very poor looking. So it’s better to simply adjust the other graphic settings to achieve whatever balance you like rather than trying to alter the resolution. 
 

 

Completely disagree, and that's on personal experience.
 

That could even be the case with a 1080P screen, perhaps even with a 1440P screen. But it's not so with a 4K screen.

Using 3200x1800 (or 83% in resolution modifier) on a 4K screen still looks absolutely wonderfull, and translates into a very considerable performance improvement.

 

4 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

You can do this in the graphics card control panel without any menu needed in the game though.

 

Oh really?

I'm all ears on how can you do that.   I think you have no idea what's this about, but please let me know about your findings....

Edited August 2, 2021 by LucShep

[will-]

just b/c u have a 4k monitor doesn't mean you should play in 4k.  sadly it seems we have been on the 1080 train since the 1990's.  sad to me i have to pay $2K for a decent 4k monitor 27" or can buy a 75" tv for the same price and its 2021.

[LucShep]

5 hours ago, will- said:

just b/c u have a 4k monitor doesn't mean you should play in 4k.  sadly it seems we have been on the 1080 train since the 1990's.  sad to me i have to pay $2K for a decent 4k monitor 27" or can buy a 75" tv for the same price and its 2021.

 

Not sure I understand you there, but I read you on what is exactly the point of this thread!!

 

If one wants to play DCS in a 4K monitor but at a lower resolution and on fullscreen (not windowed), then one can not! 

....because the mouse is still working as if it's on desktop (native) resolution....
 

Next thing some smartarse will throw the funny advice on some gymnastiques with desktop resolution changes before and after playing the game, which is plainly unaceptable in this day and age, and on a sim/game of this caliber and reputation.

Like plenty other games have been doing, DCS really needs a resolution modifier, period.

 

BTW, plenty 43'', 49''', 50'' and 55'' 4K TVs at affordable prices (300$~600$).

Unless you're into frantic twitch shooters, some of these 4K TV models are perfectly good choices for flight and driving sims on PC (but that's another topic).

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by LucShep

[will-]

thats why the price difference is so much, sure u can buy one for $300.  buts not as simple as a resolution, the reason for the price is the hardware running the image at 4k, the refresh rate, etc.  but why 1080 is the still the main res is beyond me in 2021.
 

[5ephir0th]

Sorry, but whats exactly the problem when selecting a lower resolution than the native from your monitor?

 

I mean, i fly VR only but have a 27" 2k monitor, i made a quick test, if i select 1080p as resolution (my desktop resolution is 2k) and launch a mission, my mouse works perfectly and can use the cockpit buttons and switches without any problem.

On the other hand, i used to play Starcraft 2 with DSR activated to have a greater resolution than desktop and never had an issue with mouse.

[LucShep]

17 minutes ago, 5ephir0th said:

Sorry, but whats exactly the problem when selecting a lower resolution than the native from your monitor?

 

I mean, i fly VR only but have a 27" 2k monitor, i made a quick test, if i select 1080p as resolution (my desktop resolution is 2k) and launch a mission, my mouse works perfectly and can use the cockpit buttons and switches without any problem.

On the other hand, i used to play Starcraft 2 with DSR activated to have a greater resolution than desktop and never had an issue with mouse.

 

I currently have a few games running fine with resolutions set manually lower than the native 4K (f.ex, AC and W3 at 3200x1800) and at full screen, no mouse issues whatsoever.

However, I can not make DCS use any other resolution than what is set as desktop resolution, if at full screen (fine if windowed, but that sucks).  The mouse keeps going exactly same as on desktop resolution. 

 

This has always been so for me across diferent PCs (Intel and AMD CPUs, Nvidia and AMD GPUs) through the years using DCS.

I'm currently using an AMD GPU, if that matters.

 

Not the point of this thread, but I'd apreciate if anyone finds a practical non-fussy solution, other than waiting for the long overdue implementation of a resolution modifier by E.D..

Edited August 2, 2021 by LucShep

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, LucShep said:

I'm all ears on how can you do that

You can create a custom resolution if you wanted to run lower than nature. I can’t remember exactly how but it’s possible. To run higher you can use something like Nvidia DSR. I’m sure AMD has something similar. 

1 hour ago, LucShep said:

That could even be the case with a 1080P screen, perhaps even with a 1440P screen. But it's not so with a 4K screen.

I tried doing that when I first got a 4K screen because it was very hard a few years ago to push that many pixels. I was surprised that there was a noticeable softness. I was upscaling 1440p and didn’t find that to be acceptable. But everyone’s taste is different. 

Edited August 2, 2021 by SharpeXB

[LucShep]

3 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

You can create a custom resolution if you wanted to run lower than nature. I can’t remember exactly how but it’s possible. To run higher you can use something like Nvidia DSR

I tried doing that when I first got a 4K screen because it was very hard a few years ago to push that many pixels. I was surprised that there was a noticeable softness. I was upscaling 1440p and didn’t find that to be acceptable. But everyone’s taste is different. 

Nope, already done that. Custom resolutions also don't work.

 

Please try setting DCS in its options to a lower resolution than what is on your desktop (and at full screen, alt+enter to be sure). See if your mouse still works fine after game restart.

With me, it doesn't, and it never did.

 

Off topic but - AMD's equivalente to Nvidia's DSR is VSR and, to be honest, both of these are useless (Downsampling/Downscalingt had been easy to achieve through other methods before). Neither is directly related to a resolution modifier feature implemented directly within the game - moreover, this feature usually delivers better image quality (Ubisoft games are fine examples of this lately).

Edited August 2, 2021 by LucShep

[SharpeXB]

53 minutes ago, will- said:

but why 1080 is the still the main res is beyond me in 2021.

Well really because although 4K looks really nice, graphic settings and frame rate are more important. I would put my priorities towards, FPS, Graphic settings and resolution last. I think 2160p is obviously nice but not worth sacrificing the first two. It seems the majority of PC gamers think the same way which is why 4K is such a small %. 

[LucShep]

20 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Well really because although 4K looks really nice, graphic settings and frame rate are more important. I would put my priorities towards, FPS, Graphic settings and resolution last. I think 2160p is obviously nice but not worth sacrificing the first two. It seems the majority of PC gamers think the same way which is why 4K is such a small %. 

Your point is moot, because we're at a point in DCS where people are throwing small fortunes over hardware, just to keep up with the game's demanding requirements.

Doesn't matter what monitor native resolution you have.

Any given settings to help the users fine tune the game, when pursuing performance or quality, are welcome.

Other than the settings we already have, a Resolution Modifier is also one of the best (if not the best) setting to complement them.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by LucShep

[5ephir0th]

25 minutes ago, LucShep said:

 

I currently have a few games running fine with resolutions set manually lower than the native 4K (f.ex, AC and W3 at 3200x1800) and at full screen, no mouse issues whatsoever.

However, I can not make DCS use any other resolution than what is set as desktop resolution, if at full screen (fine if windowed, but that sucks).  The mouse keeps going exactly same as on desktop resolution. 

 

This has always been so for me across diferent PCs (Intel and AMD CPUs, Nvidia and AMD GPUs) through the years using DCS.

I'm currently using an AMD GPU, if that matters.

 

Not the point of this thread, but I'd apreciate if anyone finds a practical non-fussy solution, other than waiting for the long overdue implementation of a resolution modifier by E.D..

 

NVidia user here, the test i did i made sure i was fullscreen using alt+enter and, as i said no issue, i don’t know if it’s something from UHD resolution.

[SharpeXB]

5 minutes ago, LucShep said:

Your point is utterly moot, because we're at a point in DCS where people are throwing small fortunes over hardware, just to keep up with the game's demanding requirements.

Doesn't matter what monitor you're using.

People spend small fortunes for all types of gaming. DCS isn’t really the most demanding out there. It does matter what monitor you’re using because that’s the number of pixels you’re pushing. 
 

What you’re asking for isn’t that difficult to do I’m sure but it also doesn’t look very good. DLSS or FSR are better ways to do this today. 

[LucShep]

24 minutes ago, 5ephir0th said:

NVidia user here, the test i did i made sure i was fullscreen using alt+enter and, as i said no issue, i don’t know if it’s something from UHD resolution.

Oh boy... So either we have a bug in DCS unable to use lower resolutions on 4K screens, or it's a conflict of the game with AMD drivers......     

Either way, an in-game Resolution Modifier setting will solve any of such problems, which makes the original point in the OT all the more valid.  

 

15 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

People spend small fortunes for all types of gaming. DCS isn’t really the most demanding out there. It does matter what monitor you’re using because that’s the number of pixels you’re pushing. 
 

What you’re asking for isn’t that difficult to do I’m sure but it also doesn’t look very good. DLSS or FSR are better ways to do this today. 

Seriously, at this point I'm not sure anymore if you're trolling or if you're really that distracted from the issue.  .........if VSR could solve my problem I'd be already using it!  .......tried and tested before, it doesn't work to use lower resolutions at full screen on a 4K monitor! 

Again, an in-game Resolution Modifier would solve any of such problems (be it lower or higher resolutions than screen native), making the point in the OT all the more valid.

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by LucShep

[will-]

for the mouse issue, is it possible to use mouse software and change ur dpi?  would presume changing the windows mouse issue wouldn't make a difference.

[LucShep]

11 minutes ago, will- said:

for the mouse issue, is it possible to use mouse software and change ur dpi?  would presume changing the windows mouse issue wouldn't make a difference.

Unfortunately it doesn't solve it.  Mouse still tracks as if always at desktop resolution.
If I change the desktop resolution before running the game (so that both desktop and game have same resolution) then all seems to be fine.

The point here is -and to quote Tippis on a good reply above- having to fiddle with anything like the control panel or desktop resolution settings (before entering the game AND after leaving the game) just to fix a single game's shortcoming, is the ultimate proof that it needs to be fixed, because that level of faff should never, ever be needed.

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by LucShep

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, LucShep said:

Seriously, at this point I'm not sure anymore if you're trolling or if you're really that distracted from the issue

I don’t think what you’re asking for is necessarily a bad idea but as far as I can tell, you can accomplish this without a specific menu in the game. When I set a lower resolution like 1440x2560 in DCS, and my desktop is set to 2160p, the mouse still works. Setting a custom resolution afaik will make that setting appear in the games pull-down and you can then just select that. 
Maybe your issue with the mouse is a separate thing. 

Edited August 2, 2021 by SharpeXB

[Tippis]

1 hour ago, LucShep said:

Seriously, at this point I'm not sure anymore if you're trolling or if you're really that distracted from the issue.  ..

It's the former, by the way.

He has a long history of doing this to any suggestion about improving DCS: ignoring what is being said, using his opinion or preference (and nothing else) as “proof” that the change isn't needed, strawmanning up a completely different issue that he can then poke holes in with irrelevant solutions, and proceeding to refuse to read any and all posts that explain what the actual problem is, ultimately trying to deflect it as being a “you” problem, not something that DCS should bother doing better.

 

(Not even remotely) coincidentally, he is also against implementing the very same DLSS and FSR he's now suggesting as a better solution.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Tippis

[LucShep]

 

7 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

I don’t think what you’re asking for is necessarily a bad idea but as far as I can tell, you can accomplish this without a specific menu in the game. 

 

No, you can't. You still haven't understood that changing screen resolution and using a resolution modifier is not exactly the same thing.

The former is fixed and rigid to the resolutions you have listed in GPU drivers.

The latter is done internally, not externally to the game, and is (like the name suggests) a modifier to the specific resolution that you have set in the game. It allows increase/decrease of that resolution, usually in 5% or 10% steps, and on the go (so, no game restarts necessary). This gives much, much finer adjustment, with better picture quality in comparison, with all comodity and no extra fiddling.  "Win-Win" is an appropriate term here.

 

If AAA game franchises have adopted it in recent years, it's because they too saw the benefits (and users do see it afterwards). 
I'll pick any of the latest three Assassin's Creed games of Ubisoft, merely as one fine example among others:

I can create a custom resolution of 3072x1728 in my display drivers, then run and set the game to that. ....Or I can set the game at 3840x2160 (native screen res), put the resolution modifier to 80% (which is the equivalent to that custom resolution of 3072x1728) and it looks a LOT better, with same exact performance. And I didn't even have to mess with custom resolutions in the first place.

The impression I'm getting is that, those not giving the resolution modifier any importance have not used and seen the feature working, to understand its advantages (in both comodity and picture quality).

Those who did may understand where this comes from. My point in the OT is valid and still stands.

 

7 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

When I set a lower resolution like 1440x2560 in DCS, and my desktop is set to 2160p, the mouse still works. Setting a custom resolution afaik will make that setting appear in the games pull-down and you can then just select that. 
Maybe your issue with the mouse is a separate thing. 

 

 

OK, thanks for testing.

If two of you guys have no such problem then the issues I'm experiencing with DCS (and only with DCS) must then be down to one of the following:

• possible bug where DCS can not use lower resolutions at full-screen, if on 4K screen and desktop set at native resolution (mouse keeps tracking at desktop resolution).
• conflict between DCS and AMD GPU display drivers+software (hard to believe, but not unheard of).
• conflict between DCS and SteelSeries mouse drivers+software (have used same brand and several of their mice for nearly a decade, never an issue).

I'll open a thread in the bugs forum to report it later.

Edited August 2, 2021 by LucShep

[SharpeXB]

8 hours ago, LucShep said:

I can create a custom resolution of 3072x1728 in my display drivers, then run and set the game to that. ....Or I can set the game at 3840x2160 (native screen res), put the resolution modifier to 80% (which is the equivalent to that custom resolution of 3072x1728) and it looks a LOT better, with same exact performance.

When doing a custom resolution (upscaling) do you set the scaling to be done by the GPU vs the display? Pretty sure if you set GPU scaling it’s doing exactly the same thing as the resolution modifier feature. 

[Tippis]

9 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

When doing a custom resolution (upscaling) do you set the scaling to be done by the GPU vs the display? Pretty sure if you set GPU scaling it’s doing exactly the same thing as the resolution modifier feature. 

This is not what custom resolutions do. So no.

It's also not what a resolution modifier does, so double no.

It's also not what having it as a game option does, so triple no.

 

As always, before you try to come up with reasons why the game shouldn't be improved, it really helps if you first understand what the problem is so your "reasons" don't become completely nonsensical.

[twistking]

i think there is some technical missunderstanding here, which results in you guys talking past each other.

 

the "resolution modifier" is just an UI element. in a way @SharpeXB is right, that changing resolution via such an UI should be the same as manually under- or oversampling by other means. if manual under/oversampling has particular bad results, this would qualify as a bug in my opinion and should be reported as such.

 

HOWEVER i do think that @LucShep means something different. He mentions Ubisofts games and those seem to imploy a technique called checkerboard rendering. it's basically a more clever way of upsampling, not as sophisticated as "intelligent" upsacale-techniques (dlss and such), but still more effective than just extrapolating pixels. also ubi games tend to use very good temporal post process AA.

i haven't tested rendering these games with lower resolution, but i can imagine that checkerbaord subsampling and good post process temporal AA can indeed provide decent image quality, that would not be archievable with "dumb" subsampling.

 

I think that the OP is actually more interested in checkerboard rendering and post process AA. for the latter there are already a bunch of wishlist threads...

 

ps: i honestly think before arguing against something for no other reason than arguing against it, one should first try to understand the original opinion. maybe the OP is not very experienced with realtime graphics, so you'd better try to understand what his argument is really about, before arguing against it on a basis of lack of deeper subject knowledge.

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by twistking

[LucShep]

 

8 hours ago, twistking said:

HOWEVER i do think that @LucShep means something different. He mentions Ubisofts games and those seem to imploy a technique called checkerboard rendering. it's basically a more clever way of upsampling, not as sophisticated as "intelligent" upsacale-techniques (dlss and such), but still more effective than just extrapolating pixels. also ubi games tend to use very good temporal post process AA.

i haven't tested rendering these games with lower resolution, but i can imagine that checkerbaord subsampling and good post process temporal AA can indeed provide decent image quality, that would not be archievable with "dumb" subsampling.

 

I think that the OP is actually more interested in checkerboard rendering and post process AA. for the latter there are already a bunch of wishlist threads...

 

ps: i honestly think before arguing against something for no other reason than arguing against it, one should first try to understand the original opinion. maybe the OP is not very experienced with realtime graphics, so you'd better try to understand what his argument is really about, before arguing against it on a basis of lack of deeper subject knowledge.

 

 

I honestly have no idea if it's checkerboard rendering or tiled rendering but, whatever the case, with Ubisoft and Bioware games it works a treat, with the same superior image quality (if compared to manually change screen resolution). 
 

If images are better to understand, then I got two different screenshots posted right below (nothing special, just to ilustrate my point).
One is 3840x2160 with 80% res.modifier (above), and the other is 3072x1728 with 100% res.modifier (below).

For image full size., right click and "open in new separator" .

 

I hope people can notice the differences (see foliage, overall image definition) enough to understand how good it is.

If not, then I'm afraid but this is when I'll just shrug and leave it as is.... 

  

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by LucShep