ECM and self-guided missiles

[Cmptohocah]

I am not 100% sure if this is the right forum section, but since it involves missiles, I decided to post it here.

According to the Su-27 manual, the ECM jamming pods provide protections against radars and self-guided missiles.
Now, this section doesn't really specify what exactly they mean by "self guided missiles" - probably ARH and/or IR. In DCS, ECM seems to do exactly opposite function of not degrading the fore mentioned weapons but rather acting like a magnet for them (AIM-120, R-27, AIM-7), or they don't do anything (AIM-9, R-73, R-27T).

From the manual:

Quote

Защита осуществляется путем создания помех наземным, корабельным и самолотним радяолокационным системам (РЛС) наведения я управления ракетами , а также головками самоневедения (ГСН) пакет с целью снижения вероятности поражения ими  самолета.

Translated using an online translation service:

Protection is carried out by jamming ground, ship and airborne radar systems (radar) for missile guidance and control, as well as self-guiding heads (GOS) package in order to reduce the likelihood of hitting the aircraft by them.
 

[Northstar98]

It's probably because DCS' ECM implementation is super basic, mostly being OECM (noise jamming), which firstly allows missiles to use HOJ modes to home in on targets, even while otherwise unsupported, and secondly it means that the real functions of ECM systems isn't present.

For our modules, the aircraft that have ECM equipment should have DECM sets, the techniques of which (broadly speaking) comprise track breaking, multiple target repition, communications jamming and degradation of proximity fuses (either causing premature detonation or causing the fuse to fail to function).

So far only the Hornet has any form of DECM implemented, that being track breaking. The FC3 aircraft however approximate all jammers as noise jamming (an OECM technique), which allows for missiles to use HOJ modes (DECM techniques typically aren't continuous, especially in terms of track breaking, so missile HOJ modes would be less effective/ineffective). The Mirage however approximates jammers as a slow multiple target repeater.

In any case I wouldn't expect anything to change unless a major overhaul to EW happens.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Northstar98
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[rob10]

And it will have ZERO effect on any IR guided missiles (i.e. AIM-9) as it is attempting to jam/confuse radar signal not mess with an IR signal at all.

[Harker]

In DCS, ECM (noise jamming) can degrade the performance of radar-guided missiles, by denying range information to the launching radar and thus preventing the computation of an effective interception trajectory. Instead, the missiles will head directly towards the jamming source, which is a very ineffective way of guiding.

Also, noise jamming in DCS is 100% effective up to a point (usually 21 NM) and completely ineffective after it, simulating burn-through. It should of course be a more gradual shift and the burn-through distance should depend on the radar in question.

As for IR guided missiles, some aircraft such as the Su-25T (and the Ka-50?) have DIRCM systems that can mess with the guidance of IR guided missiles, by flashing infrared radiation in an attempt to confuse the seeker. This is different from ECM, however, which has a completely philosophy and operates in the radio frequency range.

[GGTharos]

5 hours ago, Cmptohocah said:

According to the Su-27 manual, the ECM jamming pods provide protections against radars and self-guided missiles.

 

It means homing missiles.  All homing missiles are self-guiding.  It doesn't matter if you have to illuminate the target, the point is the missile does its own thing.

 

5 hours ago, Cmptohocah said:

Now, this section doesn't really specify what exactly they mean by "self guided missiles" - probably ARH and/or IR. In DCS, ECM seems to do exactly opposite function of not degrading the fore mentioned weapons but rather acting like a magnet for them (AIM-120, R-27, AIM-7), or they don't do anything (AIM-9, R-73, R-27T).

 

Now it denies loft and generally reduces Pk, but keeping your ECM on at all times isn't necessarily a good thing.  But no, DCS can't model all of the nuances ... or even really part of them right now.

Old ECM vs new digital missile ... not a bet you should want to take.

[icecold951]

I assume nothing has changed regarding this? I'm currently working to try and include emulating this via continuous trigger and random chance. The method currently allows, tested last night, a missile to fire but every repeated trigger test gives it a chance to stop the SAM ai, causing the missile to lose lock. The result is an increasing likelihood of loss of lock over greater distances.

I'm trying to create the ability so that I don't have to kill all the sams to attack a target, and create a still remaining threat, instead of a procedural bombing attack.