Silence Aim-54 Shoot with TCS-STT [WCS ON]

[DoorMouse]

1 minute ago, Naquaii said:

I'm talking about home on jam in this case but home on jam could be seen as a subset of home on radiation I guess. We're still talking the missile guiding onto a jamming source emitting on the own radars frequency. It can't look for frequencies it's not using itself as it's not listening to those. So no, not a HARM by any definition.

So specifically the mode I am talking about is not Home on Jam, but more of a Self Protect mode. If you lock up a tomcat or have your radar on, the phoenix could acquire and track you. 

[Naquaii]

1 minute ago, DoorMouse said:

So specifically the mode I am talking about is not Home on Jam, but more of a Self Protect mode. If you lock up a tomcat or have your radar on, the phoenix could acquire and track you. 

If that existed it's not something I've seen evidence of. If you have a decent source I'd like to see it.

[DoorMouse]

7 minutes ago, Naquaii said:

If that existed it's not something I've seen evidence of. If you have a decent source I'd like to see it.

I suspected this might be the case. A RIO had a discord event a while ago and mentioned it... but I got the impression it maybe wasn't documented.  I was hoping you knew more about it

[Naquaii]

7 minutes ago, DoorMouse said:

I suspected this might be the case. A RIO had a discord event a while ago and mentioned it... but I got the impression it maybe wasn't documented.  I was hoping you knew more about it

Not saying he's wrong, I've just never seen any evidence of the AWG-9 or the AIM-54 having a function for actually looking for another radar's frequencies.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Naquaii

[QuiGon]

On 1/18/2022 at 4:52 AM, DoorMouse said:

Another separate point, the radar modes and firing conditions are pretty complex compared to other aircraft and most people don't understand them.... Hell I think I probably have a few points I'd like clarified. If you guys could make a table of possible Phoenix firing modes that would be incredibly helpful and informative. Maybe call out where discrepancies between the current implementation and reality might be (PD PH Active, and the DCS 10 mile limitations... for instance)

The following is the closest to a Phoenix launch mode chart that we got. It doesn't cover different slave options though:

 

[Nazgul 1-2 -Kjell-]

Hi, I have found more bugs related to the TCS.

The tests I have made before the 27.1. patch thereby the opponent was a F16 player-controlled.

1. tracking in TWS + TCS-STT / tracking [Possible with the F16 from 33NM in TCS].

2. firing in TWS on the F16 Hot Aspect [+/- 31nm].

3. change slave from TCS to RDR [Lofting is not interrupted] / [Track Extrapolated on the TID]. 

The F16 will get a STT-launch warning at the time when the slave change takes place but no M symbols. 

4. the AIM-54 will be directed to the F16 without further problems, provided the F16 does not go into the notch. [So far all is well]

4.1 If the F16 goes into the Notch All symbols at the F16 which have to do with the F14 disappear. As soon as the F16 goes back to a Hot Aspect the F16 will not get any Nails, STT or Misslie symbols. 

5. the Aim-54 stays on course and splash the target.

 

Spoiler

Tacview Time; 11:05:00

Tacview-20220123-230350-DCS-Multi-training Mission v28.zip.acmi

 

[Naquaii]

30 minutes ago, Nazgul 1-2 -Kjell- said:

Hi, I have found more bugs related to the TCS.

The tests I have made before the 27.1. patch thereby the opponent was a F16 player-controlled.

1. tracking in TWS + TCS-STT / tracking [Possible with the F16 from 33NM in TCS].

2. firing in TWS on the F16 Hot Aspect [+/- 31nm].

3. change slave from TCS to RDR [Lofting is not interrupted] / [Track Extrapolated on the TID]. 

The F16 will get a STT-launch warning at the time when the slave change takes place but no M symbols. 

4. the AIM-54 will be directed to the F16 without further problems, provided the F16 does not go into the notch. [So far all is well]

4.1 If the F16 goes into the Notch All symbols at the F16 which have to do with the F14 disappear. As soon as the F16 goes back to a Hot Aspect the F16 will not get any Nails, STT or Misslie symbols. 

5. the Aim-54 stays on course and splash the target.

 

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Tacview Time; 11:05:00

Tacview-20220123-230350-DCS-Multi-training Mission v28.zip.acmi 1.8 MB · 0 downloads

 

Thanks! We'll try to reproduce this. It should not be possible to switch from TWS into any form of PD-STT or vice versa and still have the missile guide. If you switch out of PD-STT or out of TWS the missile should be trashed 100%. The issue with no warning on the rwr might indicate something else wrong but this should never happen as it shouldn't be possible to guide the missile like this in the first place. I've added an internal tracker for us for this.

[QuiGon]

18 hours ago, Naquaii said:

Thanks! We'll try to reproduce this. It should not be possible to switch from TWS into any form of PD-STT or vice versa and still have the missile guide. If you switch out of PD-STT or out of TWS the missile should be trashed 100%. The issue with no warning on the rwr might indicate something else wrong but this should never happen as it shouldn't be possible to guide the missile like this in the first place. I've added an internal tracker for us for this.

If I understood him corectly, he never switched out of TWS. To my understanding, he stayed in TWS the entire time, but only changed the TCS slave mode.

[Naquaii]

16 minutes ago, QuiGon said:

If I understood him corectly, he never switched out of TWS. To my understanding, he stayed in TWS the entire time, but only changed the TCS slave mode.

As i understand it he switched slave mode to slave the radar to the tcs, that will drop you out of TWS. He also says it made the track extrapolated which corresponds to this.

[QuiGon]

1 hour ago, Naquaii said:

that will drop you out of TWS

Oh, I wasn't aware of this. That makes some things clearer

Edited January 29, 2022 by QuiGon

[Nazgul 1-2 -Kjell-]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Naquaii:

So wie ich es verstehe, hat er den Slave-Modus umgeschaltet, um das Radar an die TCs zu Slaven, das wird Sie aus der TWS fallen lassen. Er sagt auch, dass es die Spur extrapoliert hat, die dem entspricht.

So it was also meant by me.