Air to Air TGP Questions

[SnakeEyes]

Hi guys,

I was going through the guide again getting a deeper understanding of the F-16 and I remembered that we could use the TGP in Air to Air mode. I was wondering if its possible to launch a missile on a TGP track without the radar being on using it almost like an IRST system. I would think on AMRAAMs it would launch it in the general direction and the go mad dog or if you could launch AIM-9s off of the TGP track? If not on the AIM-9s do you think it would be possible for the AIM-9 to track the IR designation in game or IRL? Or could we employ mavericks in an air to air capacity or maybe another IR guided missile?

I know this is a lot of questions but if this is possible IRL I think it would be great if we could add it to the game somehow.

Thanks!

[QuiGon]

You can launch AMRAAMs in mad dog mode even without the TGP. So you neither need the radar nor the TGP. Same is true for the AIM-9. They will guide onto the first target they encounter. No need for a TGP.

[SnakeEyes]

23 minutes ago, QuiGon said:

You can launch AMRAAMs in mad dog mode even without the TGP. So you neither need the radar nor the TGP. Same is true for the AIM-9. They will guide onto the first target they encounter. No need for a TGP.

Yeah that's what I figured I was just wondering if it could almost be used like the R-27R so that you wouldn't send any radar pings to their RWR. But I guess the TWS mode works just as good for that.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Raider-27

[Falconeer]

1 hour ago, QuiGon said:

You can launch AMRAAMs in mad dog mode even without the TGP. So you neither need the radar nor the TGP. Same is true for the AIM-9. They will guide onto the first target they encounter. No need for a TGP.

 

AIM-9 will go dumb after launch if they are not pointed at a target. It has a passive seeker and will not search for something other than it's told to go after for 

[QuiGon]

2 hours ago, SnakeEyes said:

Yeah that's what I figured I was just wondering if it could almost be used like the R-27R so that you wouldn't send any radar pings to their RWR.

 

Yes, by launching them in Mad Dog mode. This is possible even without the TGP and a TGP doesn't add anything to it.

 

[Frederf]

TGP for AA missile employment is the sort of thing that gets updated frequently over the lifespan of F-16. A 1985, 1995, 2005, 2015 airplane are going to have significant differences in capability.

 

Let's look at what are the theoretical sources for missile cueing for the AIM-9 and AIM-120 respectively. Those options are:

• Nothing (boresight)
• Radar
• TGP
• Helmet cue
• Datalink

As of M2 tape it's been possible to slave AIM-9 to TGP LOS. The TGP may track an AA target independent of the FCR. A dotted TLL is shown on the HUD. Laser rangefinding to AA target is possible. AIM-9 will be slaved to TGP LOS automatically if TGP is tracking and SOI (thus priority over FCR) and AIM-9 is set to SLAVE (not BORE) on SMS. While TGP is not tracking the missile is slaved to boresight. With FCR ACM and TGP AA tracking TMS right commands FCR to track along TGP LOS (instead of normal 30x20 pattern) provided SOI is either FCR or TGP. Correlation of missile and aiming sensor (radar, optical) and caged status is indicated by TLL display on the HUD. This allows prosecuting TGP tracked AA targets with AIM-9 which are off HUD. Since there's no range when using TGP cueing the HUD DLZ and flashing "shoot" diamond are not shown. I don't think they come back if laser rangefinding is provided (since only range, no closure info?).

 

TGP-cued AIM-9 attack is absolutely a thing either without or in concert with FCR. I don't know about AIM-120. In general AIM-120 won't let you initiate a launch without good data (no coast/notch) although it will let you continue a launch which has lost those requirements. Maddog I don't believe if every cued in any direction except BORE straight ahead. Maybe helmet can cue the boresight direction similar to AIM-9. I don't know. TGP AIM-120 engagement I don't believe is a thing except by cueing ACM FCR with TGP LOS and then attacking as normal, same HMCS.

[SnakeEyes]

3 minutes ago, Frederf said:

TGP for AA missile employment is the sort of thing that gets updated frequently over the lifespan of F-16. A 1985, 1995, 2005, 2015 airplane are going to have significant differences in capability.

 

Let's look at what are the theoretical sources for missile cueing for the AIM-9 and AIM-120 respectively. Those options are:

• Nothing (boresight)
• Radar
• TGP
• Helmet cue
• Datalink

As of M2 tape it's been possible to slave AIM-9 to TGP LOS. The TGP may track an AA target independent of the FCR. A dotted TLL is shown on the HUD. Laser rangefinding to AA target is possible. AIM-9 will be slaved to TGP LOS automatically if TGP is tracking and SOI (thus priority over FCR) and AIM-9 is set to SLAVE (not BORE) on SMS. While TGP is not tracking the missile is slaved to boresight. With FCR ACM and TGP AA tracking TMS right commands FCR to track along TGP LOS (instead of normal 30x20 pattern) provided SOI is either FCR or TGP. Correlation of missile and aiming sensor (radar, optical) and caged status is indicated by TLL display on the HUD. This allows prosecuting TGP tracked AA targets with AIM-9 which are off HUD. Since there's no range when using TGP cueing the HUD DLZ and flashing "shoot" diamond are not shown. I don't think they come back if laser rangefinding is provided (since only range, no closure info?).

 

TGP-cued AIM-9 attack is absolutely a thing either without or in concert with FCR. I don't know about AIM-120. In general AIM-120 won't let you initiate a launch without good data (no coast/notch) although it will let you continue a launch which has lost those requirements. Maddog I don't believe if every cued in any direction except BORE straight ahead. Maybe helmet can cue the boresight direction similar to AIM-9. I don't know. TGP AIM-120 engagement I don't believe is a thing except by cueing ACM FCR with TGP LOS and then attacking as normal, same HMCS.

cool so i wasnt totally wrong. thats good to know XD ill try some of it out ig when i have time