missing evidence F-16c in game radar way to powerful vs notching targets.

[CrazyGman]

Right now the F-16 radar is way too powerful, and is easily able to pick up anything of various size before 40nm flying in the notch or a beam while the Hornet, and even the F-15c won't be able to detect the same targets if I just sub out the F-16 for one of the other mentioned modules. 

The radar In the F-16 is supposed to only be slightly worse then the one in the F/A 18C hornet, but definitely worse then the one in the Eagle 

Edited November 20, 2021 by CrazyGman

[Dawgboy]

Could it be the opposite?  The Hornet radar is hosed versus we need to cripple the Viper?

[TobiasA]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb CrazyGman:

Right now the F-16 radar is way to powerful, and is easily able to pick up anything of various size before 40nm flying in the notch or a bean while the Hornet, and even the F-15c won't be able to detect the same targets if I just sub out the F-16 for one of the other mention modules. 

The radar Ib the F-16 is supposed to only be slightly worse then the one in the F/A 18C hornet, but definitely worse then the one in the Eagle 

And this is based on which technical evidence?

The problem here is probably the F-15's radar underperforming, the detection range of the F-16 matches what is publically available about the AN/APG-68 V5.

[CrazyGman]

2 hours ago, TobiasA said:

And this is based on which technical evidence?

The problem here is probably the F-15's radar underperforming, the detection range of the F-16 matches what is publically available about the AN/APG-68 V5.

https://sofrep.com/amp/fightersweep/hornet-vs-viper-part-four/

 

Pilot who flew both hornet and viper. He's mentioned it in other sources as well.

And for targets at lower alt notching targets at 40nm your source says the APG 68 in the F-16 can detect those targets? No i'm pretty sure the sources don't say that. The F-15C lose STT lock on MiG 25s when the notch within 30nm In this book

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.amazon.ca/F-15C-Eagle-MiG-23-25-Iraq/dp/1472812700&ved=2ahUKEwis063zo6f0AhVEFTQIHRVKBWsQFnoECFUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3Dz0RCMD5PnFqzPRiKS3GW

Until they close to within 10nm. 

So a F-16 should in no way be able to detect another F-16 that is notching at 40nm when the hornet and F-15 Can't in game

Edited November 20, 2021 by CrazyGman

[CrazyGman]

2 hours ago, Dawgboy said:

Could it be the opposite?  The Hornet radar is hosed versus we need to cripple the Viper?

Hornet radar seems fine for what it should be able to do. It's capable, but it's not magic, beaming target below you are not going to be easily seen even by powerful radar systems. F-15c's in real life lost radar locks on huge MiG 25s when they notched with 30nm. 

A F-16 should not be able to detect another F-16 at 40nm that is beaming it in ground clutter, but currently it can. None of the other teen jets can detect a target like that in game.

Edited November 20, 2021 by CrazyGman

[TobiasA]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb CrazyGman:

https://sofrep.com/amp/fightersweep/hornet-vs-viper-part-four/

 

Pilot who flew both hornet and viper. He's mentioned it in other sources as well.

He nowhere mentioned the range of the 16, and did not mention which radar version he referred to in the 16 (just that it is the 68, not which version of it)- and which version of the hornet. ED has at least one SME having flown both the 16 and the 18- which is also the author of the article that you linked- so I would expect that ED uses that source.

Radar and stuff is highly classified though.

The F-15 radar range discussion would belong into the F-15 subforum. I think the F-15 is underperforming currently.

[TheBigTatanka]

The 16 uses an MPRF radar, so it has a worse overall detection range, but is much much better at seeing things trying to notch it.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

[Kev2go]

On 12/4/2021 at 2:05 PM, TheBigTatanka said:

The 16 uses an MPRF radar, so it has a worse overall detection range, but is much much better at seeing things trying to notch it.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

 

F15 also has a radar that uses MPRF. its just like in the Hornet the radar is better as pilot can Interleave MPRF with HPRF or manually decide to use a dedicated mode, wheras the viper only used MPRF full time. and can only used HPRF in VS mode. 

 

So the F15 is by no means limited. ON paper the APG63 PSP should be better than AP68 in pretty much every way. even more so if it were APG 63 V1.

 

[okopanja]

4 hours ago, Kev2go said:

F15 also has a radar that uses MPRF. its just like in the Hornet the radar is better as pilot can Interleave MPRF with HPRF or manually decide to use a dedicated mode, wheras the viper only used MPRF full time. and can only used HPRF in VS mode. 

The F-15c as part of FC3 is way older than the F-16c. In addition it is not full fidelity. I believe they are almost 20 years apart. On raw output power level + radar aperture the F-15c should get a better range, but in terms of processing F-16 is way, way more up-to-date. E.g. to get the MFDs like F-16, you need way more processing power, then the Eagle could to in late 70s, early 80s. F-16c in ED still suffers from not all things being modeled, like ECM. Just comparing the TWS modes und graphics gives you the hint on how outdated in-game F-15 is compared to F-16. 

[Kev2go]

36 minutes ago, okopanja said:

The F-15c as part of FC3 is way older than the F-16c. In addition it is not full fidelity. I believe they are almost 20 years apart. On raw output power level + radar aperture the F-15c should get a better range, but in terms of processing F-16 is way, way more up-to-date. E.g. to get the MFDs like F-16, you need way more processing power, then the Eagle could to in late 70s, early 80s. F-16c in ED still suffers from not all things being modeled, like ECM. Just comparing the TWS modes und graphics gives you the hint on how outdated in-game F-15 is compared to F-16. 

 

Im not talking about Module. Yes everyone know it is old simplified FC3 module. I am talking about how it should perform.

also remember some of the last air superiority eagles made had APG70 of Strike eagle.  and also remember the APG63 PSP then got a upgrade to the APG63 v1 sometime in the 90s.

So no I wouldn't expect a 90s - 2000s era eagle to have less processing power than the APG68.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Kev2go

[okopanja]

Also, aside from detection/tracking ranges (which were adjusted for F-16 and not for F-15) I would expect this depends on Doppler filter as well.

If I remember correctly I read something around +-148 km/h for F-15, 246 km/h for F-14. For F-16 I do not know, but I would expect it is closer to F-15.

 

[FoxAlfa]

I will just leave this here:

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by FoxAlfa

[okopanja]

1 hour ago, FoxAlfa said:

I will just leave this here:

What do you make of it? I gather intersting parts starts from 9:16?

[LetMePickThat]

As a sidenote, it's worth noting that, in general, notching is much more reliable in DCS than it is in real life when facing modern platforms. The standard real-life reaction when shot at by an F-16C, a F-15C, an F/A-18C or another airframe equipped with a late-1990s/early-1990s state-of-the-art radar isn't to put the RWR contact in your 3-9 line and hope for the best. The F-16C being less prone to notch defeat is probably more realistic than the trope of the Hornet and Eagle losing a contact each time it goes perpendicular.