Rate my budget (really, mid-range) gaming build.

[eracer1111]

I've been buying these parts over the past few months, and while I was hopeful that RTX 3080 prices would have gotten reasonable by now ("Dreamer....you know you are a dreamer) I bit the bullet and snagged a used GTX 1080 that should work OK for a year or so.  Not ideal but, uhhhh, there it is.

- Motherboard: MSI PRO B550-A PRO AM4 ATX (Black Friday at Newegg $109.00 after $10.00 mail-in rebate.)

- AMD Ryzen 5600X ($249.00 at Best Buy.)

- 64 GB (4x16GB) DDR4/3466 CAS 16 (Free. )

- beQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 4 CPU cooler ($80.00)  This thing is huge.

- EVGA SuperNova 850W G6 80+ Gold.  (On sale for $129.00 at Newegg.  About 90W overkill.)

- PCIe Wi-Fi 6/Bluetooth adapter. ($36.00 at Newegg.  The budget MOBO has neither.)

- Hynix Gold P31 2TB M.2 NVMe ($208.14 at Amazon with coupon.)

- Fractal Design Meshify 2 Compact ($150.00 at Amazon)

- ASUS ROG Strix GTX 1080 (used) ($320.00.  Includes water block, but no other liquid parts.)

I'm going to buy about $250.00 $350.00  worth of open-loop cooling parts to finish this off.  Oh, and of course a legal copy of Win 11 to really finish it off - for now. 

Total cost will be right around $1,680 $1,780 + tax.  I think I did OK.  (ETA - 'Budget' build became 'Mid-range' build.)

Down the road I plan to upgrade my TM16000M HOTAS.  I may jump into VR at some point - probably after I get a 3080.

Edited November 23, 2021 by eracer1111

[Bossco82]

Thats a good system there mate. I have a AMD 5600x, I dont think I ever run into something gaming that gets cpu limited at the moment.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Bossco82

[Hector45]

Great build with plenty of expansion room. Good luck with the custom loop, I haven't worked up the courage to do one yet but have the itch!

[LegeinEi]

Sounds like a good system. Would be nice if you could say somesting about the 4 ram parts and if they work ogether on 3466/CL16. AMD often is a little bit picky when it comes to foll ram-inserts at high speeds.

The 1080 probably will do for some time - depends on your screen and desired resolution.

VR is a great option. I love my HP reverb 2 but at least in MS flight simulator I am happy to have a 3090. The HP really sucks tthe power out of my gpu!

What are your upgrade-plans regarding the hotas?

[BitMaster]

Think about "Quick Disconnectors" from Koolance if you do your loop. It's not cheap I agree but it just makes it 10x easier to service and take apart without draining it all all the time for any thing you need to do. Get 2 Pairs and with that you can quickly disconnect your GPU from the loop. 

Take the biggest rad that fits your case or go external.

[eracer1111]

On 11/21/2021 at 1:45 PM, BitMaster said:

Think about "Quick Disconnectors" from Koolance if you do your loop. It's not cheap I agree but it just makes it 10x easier to service and take apart without draining it all all the time for any thing you need to do. Get 2 Pairs and with that you can quickly disconnect your GPU from the loop. 

Take the biggest rad that fits your case or go external.

I have indeed thought, "What happens if I need to pull the GPU out of the chassis?"  Thanks for the tip on the Koolance connectors.

I got a 240mm thin radiator that should fit fine at the top of the Meshify case with two thin fans on it.  I'm not water-cooling the CPU, so that should be plenty of cooling for the GPU.

Edited November 23, 2021 by eracer1111

[eracer1111]

On 11/21/2021 at 1:00 PM, LegeinEi said:

Sounds like a good system. Would be nice if you could say somesting about the 4 ram parts and if they work ogether on 3466/CL16. AMD often is a little bit picky when it comes to foll ram-inserts at high speeds.

The 1080 probably will do for some time - depends on your screen and desired resolution.

VR is a great option. I love my HP reverb 2 but at least in MS flight simulator I am happy to have a 3090. The HP really sucks tthe power out of my gpu!

What are your upgrade-plans regarding the hotas?

I'm hoping the RAM will work.  The MOBO compatibility list includes the G.Skill F4-3466C16Q-16GRK (which is a 4x4GB set.)  Mine is G.Skill F4-3466C16Q-64GTZ.  If it doesn't work I'll have to buy different RAM.  This set was free, so we'll see what happens.

I would like to run DCS @ 2K resolution, but if need be I can live with 1920x1080 for a while.

I don't really have plans for the HOTAS yet.  Still researching, but maybe Virpil or WinWing?

VR comment understood.  I have no illusions about getting high FPS in MSFS2020 with the GTX 1080, so VR will have to wait.

On 11/21/2021 at 11:04 AM, Hector45 said:

Great build with plenty of expansion room. Good luck with the custom loop, I haven't worked up the courage to do one yet but have the itch!

I was going to do a simple flexible tubing kit to save money, but my last paycheck allowed me to to a hard line instead.  It cost a lot more to go that route.  I figure I might as well have a good setup ready for the next GPU I buy.  The used GTX 1080 came with a water block, so all I'll need for the better card will be a water block.  The bending and fitting part should be fun - I like a challenge!

[BitMaster]

I would certainly NOT do the hard tube as a beginner. If things dont work as planned it is so much more work and struggle to service it. Get 10 foot of soft tubing and start from there. You can always change to hard tubing once you have learned the basics in watercooling loops.

just my 2 cents

Edited November 23, 2021 by BitMaster

[eracer1111]

52 minutes ago, BitMaster said:

I would certainly NOT do the hard tube as a beginner. If things dont work as planned it is so much more work and struggle to service it. Get 10 foot of soft tubing and start from there. You can always change to hard tubing once you have learned the basics in watercooling loops.

just my 2 cents

 

I thought about what you said, and you're right.  I cancelled the items I'd ordered for the hard tubing install, and ordered Primo Flex soft tubing and compression fittings for soft tubes.

Thanks for the feedback.

[BitMaster]

I am using Primo Chill as well but tbh, my next tubing will be black EDPM tubing. IT#s not as nice but works better than all the rest afaik from reading it up.

 

 

[Bossco82]

I have not owned a custom water system myself for a few years. Mainly because I am lazy and put in an AIO. However I have built custom water for others for well over 10-12 years. So much so I remember the first full Thermaltake kits. Your doing the right thing following Bitmasters advice here. I would never encourage anyone to try hard tubing on a first attempt. I did a hard tube build for a friend this summer and with my experience it was tricky. Just getting the bends spot on is a pain. I think they look properly nice when they are done. I also almost always envy the ones I build for friends etc. However, I would probably never own or build one for myself. It makes any maintenance so much more of a headache.

[BitMaster]

[BitMaster]

OK...it deleted all the text I wrote to the pics....LoL....need to work now...will add the text again later but you can look and ask if things are unclear.

Rad is a MoRa3 360 with 4x 180mm fans, Pump is a Eheim Aquaristic that works like a charm and is ultra silent but looks Meeh, the one built into the bottom of the Res as shown in the catalog pic is much much nicer, has more flow...but not that super silent..cant have both. Still, I would get the new kit with Res/pump and the kit to mount it on the MoRa3 and keep it outside. It looks so damn cool with that Res that one day I will get it, the latest when my pump fails haha ( Can be 20years with Eheim Aquarium pumps, reliable as hell ).

The internal pics show the tubing between CPU and GPU and a Quick Disconnector between CPU outlet ( top ) and the GPU inlet ( inlet towards you on the mobo side going down into a U and up again to the QD and then to CPU_outlet ).

 

The parts are from watercool.de  but are sold world wide

 

edit:  ok, the catalog pics got deleted too.. oh my...   watercool.de has all the items shown

Edited November 23, 2021 by BitMaster

[ACME_WIdgets]

Does anyone know if a X570 mobo gets better performance than a B550?   Assuming a 3600x or 5800x CPU.

[R.Z.]

56 minutes ago, ACME_WIdgets said:

Does anyone know if a X570 mobo gets better performance than a B550?   Assuming a 3600x or 5800x CPU.

Only if you overclock, and even that, only better in theory, as you wouldn't notice the few FPS difference in DCS or other games. Or if you go for an even higher wattage CPU. I got a R5 3600 with Asrock B550 Phantom Gaming ITX last year (a high end B550), and largely regretted that I didn't go for the much cheaper base B550 boards or even B450 / A520, and allocate the cost delta for GPU, which makes much more difference in games.

[Bossco82]

B550 Vs X570 for gaming, even in DCS the difference is negligible. Just check it has the expansion slots and usb ports you need.

[BitMaster]

The only big difference is how you connect the peripherie on B550. If you plan on multiple NVMe drives X570 is better but if you just want 1 NVMe, some 2.5" SSDs and a GPU B550 is perfectly fine for any 5000 series CPU.

[Aluminum Donkey]

Looks good except for the graphics card, the GTX 1080 is pretty marginal for DCS. It's not half bad, but I wouldn't call it mid-range. By today's standards, a 1080 Ti (11GB) can be considered mid-range for DCS.

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[Thinder]

On 11/21/2021 at 12:07 PM, eracer1111 said:

I've been buying these parts over the past few months, and while I was hopeful that RTX 3080 prices would have gotten reasonable by now ("Dreamer....you know you are a dreamer) I bit the bullet and snagged a used GTX 1080 that should work OK for a year or so.  Not ideal but, uhhhh, there it is.

- Motherboard: MSI PRO B550-A PRO AM4 ATX (Black Friday at Newegg $109.00 after $10.00 mail-in rebate.)

- AMD Ryzen 5600X ($249.00 at Best Buy.)

- 64 GB (4x16GB) DDR4/3466 CAS 16 (Free. )

- beQuiet! Dark Rock Pro 4 CPU cooler ($80.00)  This thing is huge.

- EVGA SuperNova 850W G6 80+ Gold.  (On sale for $129.00 at Newegg.  About 90W overkill.)

- PCIe Wi-Fi 6/Bluetooth adapter. ($36.00 at Newegg.  The budget MOBO has neither.)

- Hynix Gold P31 2TB M.2 NVMe ($208.14 at Amazon with coupon.)

- Fractal Design Meshify 2 Compact ($150.00 at Amazon)

- ASUS ROG Strix GTX 1080 (used) ($320.00.  Includes water block, but no other liquid parts.)

I'm going to buy about $250.00 $350.00  worth of open-loop cooling parts to finish this off.  Oh, and of course a legal copy of Win 11 to really finish it off - for now. 

Total cost will be right around $1,680 $1,780 + tax.  I think I did OK.  (ETA - 'Budget' build became 'Mid-range' build.)

Down the road I plan to upgrade my TM16000M HOTAS.  I may jump into VR at some point - probably after I get a 3080.

 

Looks good, but I wouldn't splash $350.00 in liquid cooling, you'd gain more performance with a Cl14 B.die RAM kit and retain manufacturer warranty just in case you were thinking about O.Cing your CPU, all non-premium RAM come with a bottleneck and in my case, the gain from a Cl16 kit was 6.04% at 4K 2 X MSAA, and 1.33% GPU due to the fact that the B.Die removes those bottleneck including CPU-to-GPU channel.

In short, under load a Cl16 RAM kit will cause your CPU to throttle back, while a Cl14 B.Die kit will take advantage of 5600X architecture, designed for lower latency, I'd recommand a 4 X 1 rank stick since you will also beneficiate from interleaving, as a thumb rule, no more than 4 ranks and 3200MHz, if you go out of those limits, you'll create a bottleneck and you'll gain little if not nothing in normal load and quiet a bit under load. That's due to controller limitations.

Since you play a demanding game, it is not too hard to figure that what you want is a RAM which will let your CPU work at full capacity and not slow the whole system down when the gaming get tough.

I use this kit I got from Newegg if you're interested, worth the money...

G.SKILL TridentZ RGB Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C14Q-32GTZR

 

[BitMaster]

My 3600 DDR4 kit does not throttle down in any situation, not that I could measure a drop in performance in any load test ( which are likely more brutal than DCS can ever be ).

 

Let's test this statement you make on more than 1 (your) system, ok ?

IntelBurnTest IBT ?  that one for example measures the time it takes to calculate math and it really kills your system.

 

BTW:  Here's what AMD says about this topic !

 

https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/amd-ryzen-ram-scaling-effect-in-games,1.html

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by BitMaster

[Thinder]

1 hour ago, BitMaster said:

My 3600 DDR4 kit does not throttle down in any situation, not that I could measure a drop in performance in any load test ( which are likely more brutal than DCS can ever be ).

 

I have conducted my tests with 3D Mark Pro and also posted the results several times over along with the clear explainations from MSI support on the CPU controller limits, number of ranks, frequencies and their recommandation on the Chip material (B.Die) etc.

Your kit is B.Die, meaning that as opposed to a Cl16 or any 3600 DDR4 non-B.die, your kit provide your CPU with the right range of timings and is most probably single ranks, which place it well below the limits of your CPU controller, so your post isn't relevant to what I highlight, since I took good care to specify B.Die chips in my post.

For everyone info I repost the relevant information.

 

Email from MSI support replying to one of my enquieries.

Some thing are specified which makes the issues in hand pretty clear here:

Dual ranks X 4 causes the bottleneck, the CPU will throttle down under load so the ranks limit is 4, 2 X 2 or 4 X 1.

It is even more so with higher frequencies and that recommcnded by AMD for their CPUs is 3200MHz, they assume people doesn't use premium RAM B.Die one rank here.

The speed supported by AMD decreases with a number of ranks higher than 4.

Going above the recommanded 3200MHz is considered as overclocking and you lose your CPU warranty.

Here are the results of the test I conducted using 3D Mark Pro at 4K/ MSAA X 2, here the GSkill kit is compared to a Crucial Gaming kit of the same capacity (32GB) and frequency, (3200MHz) but 2 ranks per stick (2 X 2), non B.Die.

[BitMaster]

My modules are Dual Rank btw, 2Rx8 and they dont slow down my CPU at 3600 at all.

If you have a non-B-die kit at those speeds the Latency is usually higher and thus easier for the IMC, so that speaks against this theory.

 

None of the reviews I have read over the past years meantioned what you say and even AMD themselves speak differently. That is what makes me think you are not 100% right.

Might be with your rig, your mobo and Bios version or specific CPU but it is not the general consens of how AMD Ryzen 5000 series and RAM work together in general.

 

Why by all means does AMD "OFFICIALLY ADVERTISE" ( see my link above )the sweetspot is 3600 and you can go till 3733 before things start getting worse. Why ?

 

And I dont think anybody in here is concerned about breaking a warranty by setting XMP to something higher than 3200. I doubt that AMD could verify how fast your RAM ran when it broke. That is a weak point, again, with AMD advertising 3600/3733......cmon..be realistic.

 

I once send a 6700k to Intel and told them it fried when I overclocked it, plain truth. They sent me a new one without any comment on overclocking etc..

Edited December 8, 2021 by BitMaster