New High-End Alder Lake PC Build - Advice Please

[obious]

Hi All,

I’m looking to upgrade my current rig (3930K @ 4.7Ghz, 16GB, 1080ti) to something a bit more modern as I think I’ve squeezed all I can out of it and am looking for a more fluid/less laggy VR experience. 

I’ve been doing a big of digging and research into what a new Alder based (12900k) system would cost and I think I’m happy with the price. Based on my selection of hardware (12900k, 32gb, Samsung 980 1TB, ASUS TUF Gaming Z690 plus a few other things like case and new 1000w PSU) I think ~£1500 isn’t too much to spend for a ‘fresh from the factory’ setup. I should note that I’m looking to reuse my 1080ti until 3080s are in stock at a ‘reasonable’ price.

I do question my choice of the 12900k though. I’ve watched a bunch of videos online where its mentioned that Windows 10 doesn’t play nice with the new architecture and because of this, I’m actually thinking of getting a second have 9900k setup from eBay. 

Does anyone here have a new setup that uses the 12900k? I’d be interested to see/hear what the performance gains over the 9900k are.

Thanks! 

Edited December 2, 2021 by obious

[Bossco82]

Having owned a 9900k that was a golden sample with a copper IHS and could do 5Ghz on stock voltage, my current out of the box AMD 5600x is slightly better for DCS and other flight sims. If that puts it into perspective. I think you would be limiting yourself and this would be more of a sidestep upgrade.

Any of the niggles with Intels new architecture will be ironed out fairly soon. If it was my money I would probably get the 12700k with a DDR4 motherboard and then save what is leftover and put it to a 3080ti.

Another option is to only consider a 5800x/5900x and a X570 motherboard with DDR4. This would still be a step forward over the setup you have now. If I was absolutely positive I wanted to stay with WIn 10 for a couple more years I would go the AMD route. If I was just waiting for Win 11 to mature a little until say Easter time. I would go for Intel on a DDR4 motherboard.

[BitMaster]

5 hours ago, Bossco82 said:

 

Another option is to only consider a 5800x/5900x and a X570 motherboard with DDR4. This would still be a step forward over the setup you have now. If I was absolutely positive I wanted to stay with WIn 10 for a couple more years I would go the AMD route. If I was just waiting for Win 11 to mature a little until say Easter time. I would go for Intel on a DDR4 motherboard.

Why wouldnt you upgrade a X570/Ryzen combo to Win11 eventually ?

I am meanwhile "back" to 11 and it really runs decent and reliable across a wide scope of software.

 

But true, the 12700k looks really good as a gaming CPU. Still; I personally think the Ryzen option is still a great choice, heck..I just went that way and denied 12th gen Intel and DDR5 all the way LoL

 

As long as you stick with the 1080ti not much will change, your lowest fps will get better, better frame time and that's about it, the GPU was and is the bottleneck.

If you then go 3080ti and 4k or VR the CPU again will not be limiting factor as long as you pick any of the top dogs, it will bottleneck with your GPU, no matter which one. For the forseeable future no card will be fast enough to outrun the CPU in DCS imho.

I didnt gain any fps in general compared to 8700k/32GB with the 1080ti. I got smoother and higher lowest fps in critical moments, thanks to more single core power from the 5900X vs. my old 8700k@5G...but the 8700k wasnt slow and I actually didnt need to upgrade, that has only non-DCS reasons. For DCS I would need a 3080ti to improve, not a 5900x replacing a  8700k5G. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by BitMaster

[Bossco82]

Ah sorry, not what I meant there. I am using AMD and planning to upgrade to Win 11 soon. Sorry Bitmaster I didn't write that out well enough.

What I meant was that Intels latest generation is designed around Win 11 so to take full advantage, dont you need Win 11? If you planned on sticking to Win 10 wouldn't AMD be a very reasonable option because you need Win 11 to take full advantage of the usage Intels E and P cores. I thought there was something different about the scheduler in Win 11 made for that.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Bossco82

[BitMaster]

Yes, afaik to get it all from the 12th gen you need Win11.  Which imho is a strategy from MS to force people to leave 10 behind, which I can understand to some extend.

 

Baseline, most rigs suffer from weak GPUs. As long as you have a decent CPU it will likely not be the main bottleneck unless you fly low LOD at lowest Res to max out fps.

If you fly above Full-HD the GPU quickly becomes a bottleneck, way more intense and often than the usual "on the carrier deck my fps drops"...that's a CPU thing.

 

There is a wall no Hardware can overcome, you can get close to the limits but the effort and money needed is substantial.

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

I have 12900K , and i would urge you to buy a 12700k or even 12600k 

For gaming you really don't need EIGHT 'efficiency' cores. 

I've also tested with some clockspeeds. Overclocking all cores to 5,3 ghz (overclocking these is a ***** btw) and comparing to 5,1 ghz, i got a frame MORE with the latter setting. 
And just so you know , they CPU was not throttling. 

Even in DCS, which appears to be not multithreaded a lot, and also likes high clcokspeed, you're still going to be GPU limited even with a 3090. 
 

I've also tested turning OFF the "E" cores completely. (i'm on windows 11). 
It makes 0 difference in FPS. 
Not only in DCS but also in Cyberpunk 2077 (a relatively new title). 

Maybe if you like to encode video's while gaming these "e" cores come in handy, or when you're streaming or something ? But honestly, i'd just use a seperate small PC for streaming.

I'm sure the windows 11 scheduler does something but for gaming only ,,.. eh. Just save the 300 bucks more you'd have to spend on the 12900 vs the 12700 and stick 'm in the graphics card. 

As for performance gain over the 9900K , (i had the 8700K at 5,2 ghz) , nothing really. Maybe 2 ms in frametiming in VR. ? Not even sure because i copied my settings but not sure if you steam VR % is the same. 
Cyberpunk, RdR2 , few frames more maybe. 

CSGO , 400 fps, or 450 fps, it's ... not really important. 

You can brag about your cinebench scores on forums though, except most scores are in the same ballpark anyway because there's no skill in overclocking anymore at all

So, if you're expecting windows 11 to dramatically boost your gaming experience , well it won't , at all. A shiny 3080 or 3080 ti however, will. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Csgo GE oh yeah

[Bossco82]

Yeah if I wanted to have Intels latest I would get the 12600k with a DDR4 motherboard and use the Dram  already have. Everything I saved on that I would spend on a 3080ti. However in these very odd times. My AMD 5600x and 6800xt are doing just fine and DCS looks damn good. 

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

Oh and if you want to wait untill graphics card get 'normal price' again you can wait forever. 
Nvidia is already stopping with producing their own geforce 30 cards, and the other brands are not going to 'slash prices'.
Why would they ? 

Maybe when the 4 series comes around , the 3 series will become cheaper altough i also doubt that because the 4 series is supposed to be another giant leap forward (2x as fast again, or more even ?) and i doubt they will be readily available. 
Isn't Nvidia even re-producing the 20 series now and selling them for a premium, simply because they can ? 

I honestly think this is the new normal price for years to come. 

Just get that 3080 or 3080 ti

If they become anywhere near MSRP (700 dollars) again within the next 1,5 years i will pay you the difference , i'm that certain about it. 
https://www.hardwaretimes.com/nvidia-reportedly-halts-production-of-nvidia-rtx-30-series-gpu-to-avoid-price-plummet/

Of course you could wait untill this "super" refresh of the 30 series, or even for the 4-series, but they might be in high demand again and you'd be in teh same boat, but a year later. 

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Csgo GE oh yeah

[Bossco82]

I kind of agree with you there Csgo, I dont think we will see GPU prices like they were in 2019 for a couple of years at least. The way I see it if I swap out a GPU it costs me whatever it is minus what my previous is worth used. That is why I keep my stuff in the best condition I can and dont do crazy overclocks etc. So if the prices are up what I sell my old one for will be up. Swings and round abouts really. 

[Csgo GE oh yeah]

Yes that is what i usually do as well. 
Good news for the OP is that the 1080 ti , because of the situation with GFX cards, is still pretty sellable. 

I was just looking and people are asking 500-600 euro's for 1080 ti's. 

If OP wants both(card and 12 series) he could sell his 1080ti , get a 12700 or 12600K and a 3080 (or ti) and be done with it. 

Or indeed stay on windows 10 and go with AMD like you mentioned (Bossco82) in your post. 
OP needs to brew some cofffee and watch these Tech Jezus videos :

 

 

 

[BitMaster]

Right now, I advice people like my 20y old nephew to forget about upgrading his Gaming PC just because the market is nuts. Nowadays a GPU costs as much as you'd payed some years ago for a complete rig.

 

I told them to either buy a console and forget about gaming on the PC or lower the expectations and get a Ryzen 5700G to start with in Full-HD and wait &see what the market does.

For ordinary people or youngsters with limited budget the times are very very tough. They are killing the market slowly and I can see it dying in my own circle of people I know.

Edited December 4, 2021 by BitMaster

[Bossco82]

Yeah the PC market is all over the place for sure. I realised I had made a mistake buying a 6800xt to run DCS at 4k. For some reason it just cant do that resolution in DCS well. In other times I would have just thought "stuff it" sold my 6800xt on eBay or similar and bought a 3080ti.

Instead a mate of mine was selling a LG 1440p monitor after he got himself an OLED TV. I tried it out realised that DCS and all my other games still look really good at that resolution. SO I changed monitors. I think its the right way to go at the moment, instead of needing a bit more graphical grunt I have headroom instead.