correct as-is SPI Indication missing in HMCS while creating markpoint in NAV mode

[desertowl]

Hello,

While in NAV mode, pressing MARK on the ICP and selecting HUD as SOI. Long TMS up moves the SPI to the HMCS, and when looking at a certain location and pressing TMS Up short twice, a mark point is created. However, in the entire process, the SPI reticle is not displayed outside the HUD boundaries,  therefore ground stabilization and slew adjustments are impossible.

please find attached a short TRK depicting the issue.

Best,

MK

NAV_Mark_bug.trk

[TEOMOOSE]

However you dont do it NAV mode! Im not sure where this NAV thing got out of hand. The whole process is wrong. 
 

 

 

[desertowl]

Teomoose, I've seen all the videos and read all threads, but it is irrelevant to my post. I am not asking about how to do it in A-G mode. I am pointing out a weird behavior of mark point creation in NAV Mode. 

As it is now, it seems that after TMS long the HMCS Mark cue leaves the FPM but is invisible in the HMCS - I would expect that either it would stay on the FPM or be seen in the HMCS.

I wanted to inform the staff of this behavior and for them to acknowledge whether it is a bug or not. 

Best,

Mk

 

[TEOMOOSE]

21 minutes ago, desertowl said:

Teomoose, I've seen all the videos and read all threads, but it is irrelevant to my post. I am not asking about how to do it in A-G mode. I am pointing out a weird behavior of mark point creation in NAV Mode. 

As it is now, it seems that after TMS long the HMCS Mark cue leaves the FPM but is invisible in the HMCS - I would expect that either it would stay on the FPM or be seen in the HMCS.

I wanted to inform the staff of this behavior and for them to acknowledge whether it is a bug or not. 

Best,

Mk

 

I understand it, but theres no marking in NAV mode. IN our F-16 Viper the HMCS marking is done in the air-to-ground master mode, VIS CCIP. Others stuff comes later in the development.

Edited December 25, 2021 by TEOMOOSE

[TEOMOOSE]

Honestly. this might be just a viper thing, and not an actual bug. I was in nav mode without handing over commands to hmcs "TMS up long" and it was working fine. You can than slew the hud mark with the cursor.

You could hold TMS up long in NAV mode to give commands to hmcs and it does what you saying but again that would be an incorrect way of using it. Press TMS aft to fix it.

[desertowl]

"You could hold TMS up long in NAV mode to give commands to hmcs and it does what you saying but again that would be an incorrect way of using it".

This is not how system design and human factors engineering works. Again, I would like the staff or someone with knowledge of how it works in the actual aircraft to comment on that weird behavior.

[Frederf]

On 12/25/2021 at 2:05 AM, TEOMOOSE said:

I understand it, but theres no marking in NAV mode.

In the navigation master mode and in the air-to-ground preplanned modes all mark modes can be used.

[TEOMOOSE]

2 hours ago, Frederf said:

In the navigation master mode and in the air-to-ground preplanned modes all mark modes can be used.

This thread is about the hmcs ag marking. Not to be mixed with hud marking, if that's make sense.  We keep beating on a dead horse.

 

[Frederf]

HMCS is a HUD extension. All HMCS marks are HUD marks of a sort. All modes with emphasis on all.

[TEOMOOSE]

You trying to make a point here I get it. But in terms of procedures are totally different. You keep bringing this up and misleading the original post. I think we are all aware of what we are talking about. As stated before hmcs marking done through in the Air to ground master modes. You could do a similar marking through the HUD which is be different from hmcs marking while they both do the same thing but is done with different steps.

[Crptalk]

1 minute ago, TEOMOOSE said:

You trying to make a point here I get it. But in terms of procedures are totally different. You keep bringing this up and misleading the original post. I think we are all aware of what we are talking about. As stated before hmcs marking done through in the Air to ground master modes. You could do a similar marking through the HUD which is be different from hmcs marking while they both do the same thing but is done with different steps.

???

Markpoints are markpoints. The procedure to create a a HUD/HMCS markpoint is the same in NAV or A-G.

[TEOMOOSE]

Folks had problems with creating hmcs markpoints in nav mode, this what started the whole conversation. It is confirmed and you can read the manual that all hmcs marking is in the ag modes. What is so confusing about this ?

The things you could do in different ways. Have you flown or learned the a10c or a10c2. Perfect example of this. Many things can be done in so many ways.

7 minutes ago, Crptalk said:

???

Markpoints are markpoints. The procedure to create a a HUD/HMCS markpoint is the same in NAV or A-G.

This is just not exactly right. You can watch @Wags videos on it.

Edited December 27, 2021 by TEOMOOSE

[Crptalk]

What made up manual are you referring to that states HUD marks can only be created in A-G?

[TEOMOOSE]

A manual that is available to you if you search for it. That is all I can say and that is all I'm going share.

[Crptalk]

Just now, TEOMOOSE said:

A manual that is available to you if you search for it. That is all I can say and that is all I'm going share.

So you can't produce even a title of this made up manual. It's clear then that you have no clue what you're talking about. What I don't understand is what is your motivation of spreading this made up rumor? 

[TEOMOOSE]

TO be exact I wanted say that is confirmed by ED already days ago, but we still talking about which is cool I guess. 

 

4 minutes ago, Crptalk said:

So you can't produce even a title of this made up manual. It's clear then that you have no clue what you're talking about. What I don't understand is what is your motivation of spreading this made up rumor? 

You are a rumor thinking I have a made up manual. What gives you the right to speak about a subject and not having the right documents ? I can go circles with you all day.

..and like I said before it is something that is available to you as well. You just have to search for it.

Edited December 27, 2021 by TEOMOOSE

[Crptalk]

You're reading too much into that thread. It's clear there is some confusion being lost in translation. One party talking about markpoints and the other party is thinking of EO VIS/ DTOS.  Anyways, I will clear up all confusion now. HUD/HMCS markpoints are seamless. The only difference is the HMCS is being used for LOS instead of the HUD. HUD markpoints can be created in A-G and NAV. When you enter HUD markpoint mode, A-G weapon symbology will be blanked and the radar commanded to AGR to provide accurate slant range. TGP laser can also be used for accurate ranging. Finally, DTS passive ranging is also available. 

 

Reference MLU M1 pilot's guide page 97 and M3 page 96.

 

And finally a note for the 1.16 mods. None of this information was copy pasted from any manual.

[desertowl]

Since I was the one opening this thread, I was referring to creating markpoints in NAV mode with the HMCS. I was under the impression it should be working.

In the sim right now the feature is almost fully implemented and it looks like there is a bug in which the markpoint cue moves to the HMCS and the markpoint is created, only the cue itself is invisible in the process.

@Frederf, to my understanding supports this claim. 

Whether this feature will be fully implemented, completely disabled or left as-is, is up to the developers.

Best,

Mk

[aSnatchyConman]

@desertowl is correct, IRL Viper can create HMCS/HUD markpoints in both NAV & A-G mastermodes, with the symbology/PVI being identical between the two MM's. The current implementation in game is either wrong or bugged. I'm leaning towards bugged because as it currently stands you can see the markpoint cue slaved to the HMCS LOS in the HUD but that disappears the moment that the HMCS LOS exits the HUD FOV (meaning that the cue appears to be slaved for at least a certain portion of the total player FOV). 

Source: reading a -34 and actually creating markpoints in the real jet. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by aSnatchyConman

[nighteyes2017]

i agree. entirely. it is bugged. 

Now, to make it even more strange and obviously bugged, try this: 

go to nav mode, go to mark page and set HUD.

Set HUD as sensor of interest. 

Now, press tms up ONCE, to ground stabilize the spi.

Instead of pressing a second time to make the markt point, LONG PRESS tms up, like you would to bind the cursor to the HMCS. The cursor will start dancing around on its own without any input

[[31st] Spider]

I also see this as a bug. The only place where the SPI works nicely is with the Mavericks. I want to be able to set the SPI ALWAYS, like in the A-10C. Otherwise it's quite useless. When I see something happening on the ground, like a SAM launch, I want to mark that spot, no matter what mode I'm in or what weapons I'm using. So, yes, also in NAV mode, I want to be able to set the SPI at where I'm looking at right at that moment!

Edited January 2, 2022 by [31st] Spider

[P-inna]

I really wonder why it's so hard for the developers to comment or join this thread. Ultimately, we are the BETA testers and we indicate that this is clearly a bug. The developers should know the development status, and whether the bug will disappear as the AG HMCS continues to develop and other modes will be added.

[nighteyes2017]

The weird thing is, even if the round spi symbol does not follow the hmcs out of the HUD, it still works. If you press TMS up anyway, the spi DOES ground stabilize where you were looking. You can see that by turning the nose of the aircraft around en making sure the piece of ground were you designated falls in the hud. You will then see that the SPI is were you wanted it. 

Now, why would any software developer, sim or real life, implement it like this.?? that just does not make any sense at all. 

[Deano87]

15 hours ago, P-inna said:

I really wonder why it's so hard for the developers to comment or join this thread. Ultimately, we are the BETA testers and we indicate that this is clearly a bug. The developers should know the development status, and whether the bug will disappear as the AG HMCS continues to develop and other modes will be added.

I don’t think they are back at work yet. Just like everybody else they deserve some time off to enjoy the festivities

Edited January 4, 2022 by Deano87

[P-inna]

8 hours ago, Deano87 said:

I don’t think they are back at work yet. Just like everybody else they deserve some time off to enjoy the festivities

 

Really? Then why did they label this thread as 'correct as-is' recently and released the AG HMCS functionalty in the stable version on the 30th of December. They also react to many other topics in this forum. Their opion must be that it is working as it should be. I just think it is a little bit rude to not respond at all.

Edited January 4, 2022 by P-inna