How do training rockets work

[Jetliner]

Ive tried googling this but cant seem to find the answer to my question so I turn to you folks.  For training with stuff like, for example sake, a Sidewinder that has a blue, yellow, brown stripe (so inert warhead, active seeker, and active propellant) how does that work?  Does the missile track the target and just ram into it, or does it only get enough propellant to get off the rail and then eventually just crashes into the ground to help pilots simulate rocket launches.  Or, is it all run internally where once you press fire - the plane basically runs a simulation to calculate if you would have splashed or not?  Cant someone shed some light on "training munitions" for me, essentially?  Thanks!  Im assuming anything that actually comes off the rail is going to be a live warhead for live fire practice - but at what?  Drones?  And anything with an inactive warhead I assume they bring back to base instead of wasting the money on the seeker and such.

[rob10]

From what I understand, anything "powered" (i.e. missile like) doesn't actually come off the rail, it's strictly simulated.  For dropped bombs, they are designed to be same aerodynamics and I think they are ballasted to be same weight, but only a small charge so you can see where it hit.

[BuzzU]

What is the rocket simulating if it stays on the rail? How would you know if you hit anything?

[Bunny Clark]

There's quite a variety of training weapons.

Bombs come in two general varieties: small training bombs like the BDU-33 and LGTR which are designed to mimic the trajectory of a real bomb and explode with a small smoke marker. They're small, light, and cheap so planes can carry a lot of them. There are also full-up training bombs, basically a real steel bomb casing filled with an amount of concrete that is the same weight as the normal explosive filler. These mimic the trajectories of real bombs exactly, can be fitted with Paveway and JDAM kits just like a real bomb, and give the pilot the feel of a real bomb coming off the jet. 

Then there are captive-carry missiles. These are missiles with no motor or warhead, and are attached to an aircraft to train with their sensor systems. Examples include the CATM-9, which is a captive-carry Sidewinder used in dogfight training so the pilot can uncage the seeker and get the growl and lock tone. The TAGM-65 is a Maverick with a tape recorder inside it that records footage from the seeker head and an indicator when the pilot hits the pickle button so that targeting and lock quality can be evaluated during the debrief. 

Air to Air missile live shoots are often done with missiles without live warheads targeting old fighter aircraft that have been converted to autonomous drones like the QF-4 and QF-16. The missile is tracked downrange and the hope is that is passes close enough to the target aircraft to be considered a "kill." Occasionally a missile will perform perfectly and impact the drone, but if the missile only passes close by the drone, it will be usable again in future tests. 

[Dragon1-1]

As for counting kills, you get in parameters and call Fox. If the exercise controller agrees you have a good shot and the target didn't maneuver enough to evade, whoever you just shot is a mort and gets to circle around the holding point for the rest of the fight. With CATM-9, you have to get a good tone, with something like a Sparrow you have to keep the bandit locked for the notional missile's TOF. I don't know how they do Slammers, but I'd expect a pitbull to be considered a kill. 

[Jetliner]

A wealth of information you guys are. Thanks so much. 

[Habu_69]

The concept of "training weapons" in a flight simulator amuses me. DCS is a SIMULATOR, for heaven's sake. What is the point of simulated weapons in a simulator?? Just run a training mission and use real (simulated) weapons.

[Tholozor]

51 minutes ago, Habu_69 said:

The concept of "training weapons" in a flight simulator amuses me. DCS is a SIMULATOR, for heaven's sake. What is the point of simulated weapons in a simulator?? Just run a training mission and use real (simulated) weapons.

So you can simulate how real-world operators train. Luckily we have an option; if you don't want to do it that way, you don't have to.

[Jetliner]

7 hours ago, Habu_69 said:

The concept of "training weapons" in a flight simulator amuses me. DCS is a SIMULATOR, for heaven's sake. What is the point of simulated weapons in a simulator?? Just run a training mission and use real (simulated) weapons.

And so you can continuously fight without having to go back and restart a new plane on the ramp after each kill or when empty.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Jetliner

[Habu_69]

On 2/13/2022 at 7:33 PM, Jetliner said:

And so you can continuously fight without having to go back and restart a new plane on the ramp after each kill or when empty.

 

Check out unlimited weapons for training purposes. I recognize that DCS provides different strokes for different folks, tho. Carry on.

 

[BuzzU]

When I practice with my Hawken. I use a full elk load and put holes in the target.

[bfr]

On 2/14/2022 at 12:33 AM, Jetliner said:

And so you can continuously fight without having to go back and restart a new plane on the ramp after each kill or when empty.

 

For A2A you could use a live round, just don't actually fire it. Even if a captive carry missile was simulated you'd probably need to do your own debrief with something like Tacview to decide whether the shot was likely to hit or not (you could remap your 'pickle' to 'mark event' I suppose to pinpoint when you simulated firing).

I kind of get wanting real world training weapons to be simulated but i'm with others that i'll just set up mission scenarios where i'm almost ready to run in (just leave enough slack to set up weapons and means its easily and quickly repeatable when I inevitably cock something up, and for heavier A2G ordnance also means I get to experience flying repeat passes with asymmetric loads) and use live rounds instead.