Refueling Ease

[Cerulean]

I want to start by saying I am floored and humbled by all the attention my flight/space sim channel is getting. I know some of you viewing it are from here, and thanks!  More than 5,000 hits in just the last few days.  Anyways, in one of the earlier vids--when I was noting how long I've done DCS and my struggles to refuel in it--I remarked that I was starting to think my problem was my joystick. I don't want to knock the Warthog stick; I liked it.  But the center detent was so strong it interfered with the delicate movements required to refuel.  That's partly because, living on a farm as I do, I use my arm so hard splitting wood and moving grain and hay and stuff that it was very painful to perpetually fight the Warthog's very powerful spring and center detent at the end of a hard working day.

That changed like magic with the VKB setup.  With the MCE Pro on a Gunfighter III base, I made successful connection to the refueler first time I tried for 10 seconds, twice.  Next day--successfully refueled twice.  Just as quick and easy as that!  I am absolutely salivating over the smooth movement of the stick and the lighter springs.

I had thought for years I was struggling with the hand-eye coordination or something.  Turns out I was struggling with my old hardware.  A proper stick like the VKB and suddenly the daunting task of AA refueling in DCS became merely a challenge.  I expect soon I'll be refueling as easy as a carrier landing.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Cerulean

[dburne]

I will have to give it another try. I use a Gunfighter Mk III with 200 mm extension, struggled some first time I tried. 

[Cerulean]

3 hours ago, dburne said:

I will have to give it another try. I use a Gunfighter Mk III with 200 mm extension, struggled some first time I tried. 

I'm not using an extension. Because of my arm injury, I really need the stick mounted to my right, F-16 style, but even connected directly to the Gunfighter base, it works fine for AA refueling. Smooth as silk.  I am using the lightest springs.  The only thing that is taking some getting used to is the light springs, but that's mainly just because I am so used to the heavy force required to move my previous Warthog stick.  I imagine in a few more weeks, the VKB stick will feel completely natural.

[Airbusjoerg]

On 3/15/2022 at 5:41 AM, Cerulean said:

I want to start by saying I am floored and humbled by all the attention my flight/space sim channel is getting. I know some of you viewing it are from here, and thanks!  More than 5,000 hits in just the last few days.  Anyways, in one of the earlier vids--when I was noting how long I've done DCS and my struggles to refuel in it--I remarked that I was starting to think my problem was my joystick. I don't want to knock the Warthog stick; I liked it.  But the center detent was so strong it interfered with the delicate movements required to refuel.  That's partly because, living on a farm as I do, I use my arm so hard splitting wood and moving grain and hay and stuff that it was very painful to perpetually fight the Warthog's very powerful spring and center detent at the end of a hard working day.

That changed like magic with the VKB setup.  With the MCE Pro on a Gunfighter III base, I made successful connection to the refueler first time I tried for 10 seconds, twice.  Next day--successfully refueled twice.  Just as quick and easy as that!  I am absolutely salivating over the smooth movement of the stick and the lighter springs.

I had thought for years I was struggling with the hand-eye coordination or something.  Turns out I was struggling with my old hardware.  A proper stick like the VKB and suddenly the daunting task of AA refueling in DCS became merely a challenge.  I expect soon I'll be refueling as easy as a carrier landing.

 

 

Absolutely agree.

I have been struggling with "air refuelling" for 3 years, first with the 16000M, then with the Titanwolf Vulture and finally with the Warthog. I never got it right and it was always a damn drama. I hated it. And I really tried everything, watched a thousand tutorials, tried ten thousand different curve-settings, did dirty tricks with the autopilot - it all helped not much.

Last week I finally made the decision to buy a Gunfighter MkIII - "Modern Combat Edition Ultimate" because I was sick of it and wanted to know if I was really too stupid.

What can I say.
I hooked the Gunfighter up straight out of the box, put a curve of 10 on X/Y axis, thought to myself, wow, does this thing feel wobbly and started DCS.
It only took me two tries and then I was hooked up to the tanker and able to refuel without stopping, one day later I was able to stay on the tanker even in a turn - I've never been able to do that even remotely before.

After that I did something I would never have imagined: I switched on the wake turbulence option and it worked the same way, maybe a little more difficult but overall no problem. I can tell you, I was so fuXXing hyped, like a five-year-old at Christmas.

For the throttles I use the cheap Thrustmaster TWCS, but I lubricated the rails with Liqui Moli silicone grease, which makes it feel WAY better to me than the Warthog throttle (no "sticktion", precise, damped feeling).

I also have to say that other things, such as carrier landings, have not been improved much by the new stick; they worked quite well before. I suppose, thats why the focus is more on the throttle work than on the stick in that case.

Nevertheless, I love this stick even though it cost me an arm and a leg. Compared to all the other sticks, it feels like I have a direct connection from my brain into the FCS of the F18.

And also very important: I no longer have a cramp in my arm or pain in my shoulder, even after flying for a long time.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Airbusjoerg

[Cerulean]

On 3/29/2022 at 9:10 AM, Airbusjoerg said:

For the throttles I use the cheap Thrustmaster TWCS, but I lubricated the rails with Liqui Moli silicone grease, which makes it feel WAY better to me than the Warthog throttle (no "sticktion", precise, damped feeling).

I also have to say that other things, such as carrier landings, have not been improved much by the new stick; they worked quite well before. I suppose, thats why the focus is more on the throttle work than on the stick in that case.

Nevertheless, I love this stick even though it cost me an arm and a leg. Compared to all the other sticks, it feels like I have a direct connection from my brain into the FCS of the F18.

And also very important: I no longer have a cramp in my arm or pain in my shoulder, even after flying for a long time.

 

Just stick with those carrier landings. They really are much easier than refueling.  Just have to practice landing on a postage stamp.

[Mistermann]

On 3/29/2022 at 8:10 AM, Airbusjoerg said:

For the throttles I use the cheap Thrustmaster TWCS, but I lubricated the rails with Liqui Moli silicone grease, which makes it feel WAY better to me than the Warthog throttle (no "sticktion", precise, damped feeling).

Have you seen this mod for the TWCS?

One of the single best modifications I've ever done.  Highly recommended.  If you greased the rails already, you've already got the battle won - figuring out how to open and manipulate the throttle is the biggest challenge.

 

[Airbusjoerg]

53 minutes ago, Mistermann said:

Have you seen this mod for the TWCS?

One of the single best modifications I've ever done.  Highly recommended.  If you greased the rails already, you've already got the battle won - figuring out how to open and manipulate the throttle is the biggest challenge.

 

That sounds GREAT. Would be very interested to buy one. Is CoreHawk3D around here somewhere on the forum? I would like to handle this directly with him, so I do not have to create an account on Etsy.

[Mistermann]

1 hour ago, Airbusjoerg said:

That sounds GREAT. Would be very interested to buy one. Is CoreHawk3D around here somewhere on the forum? I would like to handle this directly with him, so I do not have to create an account on Etsy.

I don't think so.  I communicated with him via email and he indicated he played DCS a bit.  I just don't know if he's around here.  Let me see if I still have address information.

[AlpineGTA]

I have that mod and at first my immediate thought was that it did feel slightly better, but now after months of use I don't think it feels much different to how it felt standard, there's still a lot of stiction. After all you still have two solid objects resting against each other that require some force to get them moving. I think the best solution is probably just the silicon grease, to ease the sliding of one part over the other, which I've yet to try.

Perhaps the best solution would be both the mod and the grease but I suspect, in that situation, the grease is having the greater effect.

 

Edit: Here's the Etsy link I bought mine from. To be fair a lot of people are really happy with it and rate it a big improvement so your experience may differ to mine.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/968346749/slider-upgrade-kit-thrustmaster-t16000m

Edited April 1, 2022 by AlpineGTA

[Dogmanbird]

Have you seen this mod for the TWCS?

I use a similar diy 3D printed one for the same throttle which uses linear bearings. Ironically, it makes it soooo smooth and sticktionless that I've had to find a way to dampen the movement, otherwise I accidentally move the throttle when gently pressing buttons.

So I've modified the 3d printed plate to accommodate a front and back spring steel plate with Teflon tape attached, making contact with the rods to apply equal pressure to front and back (otherwise linear bearings feel a bit gritty). Drilled an extra hole in the base to adjust the screw pressure for each end. It's by far the best feeling movement out of all the throttles I've tried to date. I just wish I could get the same precision from virpil cm3 as I love it's grip arrangement

https://3dmixers.com/m/117133-thrustmaster-t16000m-twcs-throttle-upgrade

 

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Dogmanbird

[Dogmanbird]

Here's another 3d printable with magnet detents if anyone's interested. Looks like a slightly more refined version of the one I used.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4748193

Edited June 15, 2022 by Dogmanbird