OpenXR for Varjo AERO using OpenCompositeACC mod: works great, very smooth

[dburne]

One thing I have discovered messing around in Varjo Base, I have set Vsync enabled in Varjo Base with default of Hi setting, and it is locking my fps to 45 and the experience is very smooth.  Don't know if running with Open XR is helping that or not but so far I am really liking this.

I need to get in there and also play with some Open XR Toolkit settings like the fixed foveated rendering.

Edited April 4, 2022 by dburne

[edmuss]

23 minutes ago, dburne said:

One thing I have discovered messing around in Varjo Base, I have set Vsync enabled in Varjo Base with default of Hi setting, and it is locking my fps to 45 and the experience is very smooth.  Don't know if running with Open XR is helping that or not but so far I am really liking this.

I need to get in there and also play with some Open XR Toolkit settings like the fixed foveated rendering.

 

Now you're up and running, have a read through my tuning guide. Some parts may not be 100% applicable to the varjo but the basics are still the same

[dburne]

I tried the default fixed foveated rendering with the Toolkit and did not much like it, got an ugly shimmer ahead of me. 

I am happy with the default High Varjo Base and Vsync enabled in Varjo Base, gives me a constant 45 fps and very smooth experience so far.

[dburne]

Hmm this last flight my Aero headset blacked out on me for a moment or two a couple of times. First time I have ever seen that so maybe related to this Open XR Mod I started running today. That concerns me, will see how tomorrow goes and if it does it any more. If it does I will revert back to no Mod to make sure it is not the headset starting to have an issue.

[Tomcat31]

Hello, same for me with vsync activate on VB, it s very smooth, but I have ghosting

[Supmua]

Don, try Higher setting on the Aero.  It's pretty much 4KTV quality.

[dburne]

2 hours ago, Supmua said:

Don, try Higher setting on the Aero.  It's pretty much 4KTV quality.

Will have a look at that tomorrow. I am somewhat concerned about my image blacking out for a moment or two today, want to make sure that is not an issue with my Aero now. I have a feeling it had something to do with the Mod I am now running cause it has never happened before. I will see how it goes tomorrow whilst still running the Mod , if it does it again I may have to pull the Mod and test to make sure it is not an issue now with my headset.

Edit: To be sure I have set Open XR Developer Tools back to default. Only thing I have changed is the timeout on how long it displays. I could have managed to change some things unintentionally when I was playing around in there before flying today. Will see how it goes tomorrow to insure I don't have image blacking out again. If it does then I will have to remove the Developer Tools program and repair DCS then test again to see if it continues to happen. Want to be sure my headset is not developing an issue. I am not much on coincidences which is why I think it had something to do with the Tools program, as I installed that this morning and had my first image blackout today. 

Edited April 5, 2022 by dburne

[Blackdog]

2 hours ago, dburne said:

Will have a look at that tomorrow. I am somewhat concerned about my image blacking out for a moment or two today, want to make sure that is not an issue with my Aero now. I have a feeling it had something to do with the Mod I am now running cause it has never happened before. I will see how it goes tomorrow whilst still running the Mod , if it does it again I may have to pull the Mod and test to make sure it is not an issue now with my headset.

Edit: To be sure I have set Open XR Developer Tools back to default. Only thing I have changed is the timeout on how long it displays. I could have managed to change some things unintentionally when I was playing around in there before flying today. Will see how it goes tomorrow to insure I don't have image blacking out again. If it does then I will have to remove the Developer Tools program and repair DCS then test again to see if it continues to happen. Want to be sure my headset is not developing an issue. I am not much on coincidences which is why I think it had something to do with the Tools program, as I installed that this morning and had my first image blackout today. 

 

I had issues with headset blackouts when I tried the OpenXR thing, no OpenXR Toolkit -- disabled it and haven't had the issue since... though anecdotally others are using it without issue.

Makes me wonder if there an Nvidia driver setting or something, but my OpenVR performance is good enough that I haven't bothered figuring it out for the sake of stability.

[Supmua]

No issue with the headset here, and I’ve played a lot daily since the Apache was released.

[dburne]

10 hours ago, Blackdog said:

I had issues with headset blackouts when I tried the OpenXR thing, no OpenXR Toolkit -- disabled it and haven't had the issue since... though anecdotally others are using it without issue.

Makes me wonder if there an Nvidia driver setting or something, but my OpenVR performance is good enough that I haven't bothered figuring it out for the sake of stability.

So you just disabled the Toolkit but still run Open XR?

Edit - Never mind re-read and realize you disabled Open XR

8 hours ago, Supmua said:

No issue with the headset here, and I’ve played a lot daily since the Apache was released.

Yeah I really don't think it is my headset been running it hard since getting it in Jan with no issue. Will see what today's testing brings.

Edited April 5, 2022 by dburne

[Supmua]

You don’t actually need the Toolkit for OpenXR, it’s for further tinkering but offers very useful features such as frametime analysis, upscaling, image processing (contrast, saturation, etc.), FOV setting, foveated rendering which is essential for me to get good fps in MSFS BUT isn’t working right at present with DCS. 
 

it helps me figure out that by simply reducing texture to medium I can maintain stable 45 fps at the airport in Syria Apache hotstart instant action.  I can even squeeze out better GPU frametime by manipulating forest settings. 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Supmua

[dburne]

9 minutes ago, Supmua said:

You don’t actually need the Toolkit for OpenXR, it’s for further tinkering but offers very useful features such as frametime analysis, upscaling, image processing (contrast, saturation, etc.), FOV setting, foveated rendering which is essential for me to get good fps in MSFS BUT isn’t working right at present with DCS. 
 

it helps me figure out that by simply reducing texture to medium I can maintain stable 45 fps at the airport in Syria Apache hotstart instant action.  I can even squeeze out better GPU frametime by manipulating forest settings. 

 

Does a default install of the Open XR toolkit change any settings of a default install of Open XR? Or only if one manually makes the changes in the Toolkit for Open XR?

[Supmua]

1 hour ago, dburne said:

Does a default install of the Open XR toolkit change any settings of a default install of Open XR? Or only if one manually makes the changes in the Toolkit for Open XR?

No it won’t change rendering resolution so it will default at 100%. Unlike WMR headsets which allows res change via WMR OpenXR tool, we can only change res via Varjo app (only 6 settings as far as I recall). 
 

You can use NIS or FSR option for res reduction plus upscaling back to 100% from the toolkit but that’s not quite the same as the conventional method and the results imo don’t look good on the Aero.  These upscaling methods have performance advantage but sacrifice visual quality. 
 

The key advantage of OpenXR for me is that it allows me to use 100% res with decent fps, and this isn’t possible with OpenVR with my current setup.  DCS or any VR apps with 100% res at higher setting on the Aero is a really nice visual treat. SkyrimVR, for example, is mind blowing. 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Supmua

[dburne]

Ok so today I experienced no image blackouts like I saw a couple of yesterday. This morning I reset Open XR Developer Tools back to default.

Everything was fine today. Hoping it stays that way. I have found with my High Varjo Base settings and vysnc in VB enabled as long as I maintain 45 fps I get a very smooth image. I tried the next level up on Varjo Base settings but got framerate dips to 30 fps and that was not so smooth so have reverted back to the default High setting. Still looks quite good.

I think I am just going to just uninstall the Developer Tools, I see no real reason to have it since I am running an Aero. Just running in Open XR runtime will be enough I think.

Edited April 5, 2022 by dburne

[Supmua]

Pretty much stick with the settings that work for you.  I opt for higher res (Very High on Varjo app, which is 3.6K horizontal pixels per eye vs 3.1K on default setting) because it looks much better even though there's some framerate issue in densely populated area.  V-sync setting is no good at this res because fps suffers.  In MP I can't maintain 45 fps but I'm ok with that.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Supmua

[dburne]

12 minutes ago, Supmua said:

Pretty much stick with the settings that work for you.  I opt for higher res (Very High on Varjo app, which is 3.6K horizontal pixels per eye vs 3.1K on default setting) because it looks much better even though there's some framerate issue in densely populated area.  V-sync setting is no good at this res because fps suffers.  In MP I can't maintain 45 fps but I'm ok with that.

 

I can't maintain 45 fps at the Very High res setting. And when it is below 45 I see noticeable stuttering. So I settle for High with Vsync enabled. Might try it again with Vysnc disabled and see how it looks, I suspect my framerates will still be a bit low for my tastes.

Edited April 6, 2022 by dburne

[Supmua]

If you turn on detailed fps analysis option you can check frametimes as well as latency on both GPU and VPU.  Foveated rendering I find strangely reports lower fps numbers than expected when compared with respective frametime numbers, which makes me think that it’s still not working correctly.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Supmua

[dburne]

Gang remember after today's hotfix you will need to insert the files again for Open XR.

[dburne]

2 hours ago, Supmua said:

Pretty much stick with the settings that work for you.  I opt for higher res (Very High on Varjo app, which is 3.6K horizontal pixels per eye vs 3.1K on default setting) because it looks much better even though there's some framerate issue in densely populated area.  V-sync setting is no good at this res because fps suffers.  In MP I can't maintain 45 fps but I'm ok with that.

 

 

Ok yeah so yesterday I had tried that but with vsync on in Varjo Base, just tried it on Very High again except with vysnc off in both the Apache and the Hornet. The result was definitely better, I stayed above 45 fps the vast bulk of time ( only dipped below 45 fps on initial cold starting on the Super Carrier in Persian Gulf). I think I will keep it here a while, results looking very good and certainly very flyable.

Thanks,

[dburne]

Ok so seems I have settled in with Open Composite and running Varjo Base on the Very High setting, vsync off, with good results. I am certainly pleased.

Out of just sheer curiosity I think tomorrow's exercise I am going to actually remove the mod, repair DCS, and run it with the same exact settings in the default Steam VR. I will set resolution to 100% in Steam VR so it is the same. I want to compare the visuals, the smoothness, and the fps I get with it versus what I get with the Open Composite Mod. No factual scientific numbers -  just from my personal perception between the two flying the same missions.

I anticipate I will decide to go back to the Open XR Mod , but want to see with my own eyes first. 

[javelina1]

9 minutes ago, dburne said:

Ok so seems I have settled in with Open Composite and running Varjo Base on the Very High setting, vsync off, with good results. I am certainly pleased.

Out of just sheer curiosity I think tomorrow's exercise I am going to actually remove the mod, repair DCS, and run it with the same exact settings in the default Steam VR. I will set resolution to 100% in Steam VR so it is the same. I want to compare the visuals, the smoothness, and the fps I get with it versus what I get with the Open Composite Mod. No factual scientific numbers -  just from my personal perception between the two flying the same missions.

I anticipate I will decide to go back to the Open XR Mod , but want to see with my own eyes first. 

will be interested in your "seat of the pants" comparison report!  It's all about the visuals.  good luck! 

[dburne]

18 hours ago, javelina1 said:

will be interested in your "seat of the pants" comparison report!  It's all about the visuals.  good luck! 

 

Ok so yesterday I spent the day flying two missions. This is with Varjo Base set to Very High.

1: Apache Cold Start Training - after starting up I would fly around low over some towns firing rockets at some buildings just for fun, then return to the airbase and land. I kept my altitude between 100-400 ft.

2: Hornet - Super Carrier Mission in the Persian Gulf - Cold Start. After going through cold start I would launch from the Carrier, hang a left and fly over the coast line, then hang another left and fly low over some heavily populated areas, then return to the Carrier for a trap. I kept my altitude when flying over populated areas between 200-400 ft.

Yesterday I did the above a few times using Open XR Mod with the Aero.

Then we come to today. I got rid of the Mod, repaired DCS and reset Varjo Base enabling Open VR, so today I ran it via native Steam VR. Same missions and same flying. I kept Varjo Base at the same Very High Setting and Steam VR at 100%.

My observations:

Using Open XR Mod I gained in the above missions around 3-5 fps, no more. Not that much really and does not really make much difference in VR.  Seat of the pants performance seemed good with a little bit of micro-stuttering down low.

Using Steam VR whilst performance fps wise was a little less, I saw no more micro stuttering when down really low than I saw with the Open XR Mod. However - the overall image clarity "seems" better to me using the default Steam VR. This across the cockpit and when looking out much further way. Absolutely no shimmering seen at all. I just had a sense of it being clearer. And the colors seem to pop better to me, the cockpits were stunning.

So my verdict - for me I am going to stick with the native Steam VR with my Aero. I imagine there are some WMR users that may benefit more from this mod with DCS - or some Aero users possibly with a lesser spec system. My rig is not current but still pretty stout running at 5.1 GHz  on all cores plus my EVGA 3090 FTW3 Ultra is no slouch either. Now I don't know if the colors of the Aero can be adjusted independently with the Open XR Toolkit - for some reason I am thinking not with the Aero - but even if they could that is not a rabbit hole I would be willing to go down. I need to fly baby, not adjust things over and over.

FPS wise - Open XR I was around 50-55 fps. Steam VR around 48-53 fps. Both missions. I will tell you though using the native Steam VR today I had a bigger smile on my face flying these missions. This is a very personal and subjective observation, nothing scientific about it. I don't care about raw scientific numbers, I care about what I personally actually see in the headset itself. I would encourage anyone interested to try the Mod and compare with and without to come to your own conclusions. Frankly I am glad I will not have to worry about resetting and re-inserting the Mod files after every DCS update. But if the Mod had made a nice difference for me, yeah I would have done it no problem.

I will conclude by saying: Open XR is a very nice runtime for VR, and more developers should add native support for it. I know ED has their hands full right now, if VR continues to grow and more players get to using it I hope someday they might consider adding native Open XR support. I think if DCS had native support my results might have been different. 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by dburne

[javelina1]

interesting, thanks for sharing.   I also saw that WMR for Steam VR pushed out an update earlier today.  Check the notes, it mentioned something about improvements with graphics buffers and GPU memory utilization....

[dburne]

14 minutes ago, javelina1 said:

interesting, thanks for sharing.   I also saw that WMR for Steam VR pushed out an update earlier today.  Check the notes, it mentioned something about improvements with graphics buffers and GPU memory utilization....

Yeah but I do not run WMR.

I have a feeling this Mod might be more beneficial to WMR users. That is what the Toolkit is designed to work with as well.

Edited April 7, 2022 by dburne

[Supmua]

Perhaps my rig isn’t as strong as yours, Don, I cannot get good fps via SteamVR at 100% on Aero’s Very High setting (that’s 3.6K horizontal pixels per eye) and typically needed around 80% downsampling for typical DCS use.  For me OpenXR visual is slightly ahead at 100% vs SteamVR at 80%, although I need to check out the latest SteamVR update at some point.  So I’m still going to be switching around between these two options.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Supmua