The F-35 Thread

[GGTharos]

all that you wrote makes no sense in the challenge russians gave for F-22.. and russians were challenging it with Su-37 back in 2000 or so.. the one who refused were US not Russians..

 

In 2000 the Raptor was not operational. Such challenges are done for political show only. Is it making sense to you yet, or do you need more real life reasons?

 

you speak pilots lie to sale their products.. well, if the pilot is ready to have a mock up in front of audiences i say he knows his plane. but you know your charts and claim f-15 is better dogfighter than su-27 because you know chart)

No, I wrote something very specific, and nowhere did I mention the word 'dogfighter'. Now you are making things up.

 

again.. why don't we see one clip of f-15 outturning the sukhoi in usa?

Why don't we see one clip of Su-27 outturning the eagle anywhere?

 

now that US has the ability to train against sukhois.. something you even admit is true.. you wrote the fact that sukhois in usa is nothing important..

Can you quote where I wrote that it's nothing important? I did write, implicitly, that it's not what you think it is.

 

its just sukhoi instead of f-15 flying with sukhoi coloured scheme)) no, its a big deal, its something that can actually give you the answer who would win and out turn who in dogfight.. and since no videos are out there. i will assume its the sukhoi kicking ass..

I would assume that the Sukhoi are being used in DACT. There have been MiG-21's, MiG-17's, Mirages and other aircraft owned by either the USAF itself or companies such as the one that owns the Su-27's. They are used for DACT - ie. for training pilots to fighter different types of planes in practice instead of just in theory.

 

look, your gestapo ways are really annoying man, if you don't agree with someone's statement you don't need to PROVE them wrong. you can say in civilised manner:this are the reasons i believe this is not so, and i believe this is so..

Why say 'I believe this' when I know it's true and I can prove it?

 

but you just ..i don't know man, you are a moderator dude, relax, give people the ability to have their own opinion and defend their opinion.. this is something you do not allow..its very gestapo approach man.. not cool..

So, spreading lies about an incident that has been debunked before is what you call your opinion? And you're telling me I have 'gestapo ways'?

 

i wrote what I believe happened and which version of fact i choose to believe .. you can write yours.. but you cannot deny me what i wrote. i am not doing the same to you.. if you believe, seriously.. that since Su-27 came to US(the one bought by US) were not used in serious combat mock up battles with F-15.. and that from all this mock ups not even 1 video is posted on youtube.. and that this is because F-15 is kicking sukhois ass..than this is your belief.. i accept it, i do not agree with it, but accept it..

Are you even reading what I wrote? As for mock-battles, you don't see red flags, you don't see a huge number of other mock battles on youtube either, not even against transport planes (yes, they sometimes use transport planes as targets). I guess the transport planes much be 'kicking ass' with their superior maneuverability and acceleration and out-dogfighting the poor eagles?

 

You have some seriously flawed logic going here.

 

i hope to god you don't ban me now.. you are quite the character GG ..quite the character.. )lol

Since I'm gestapo I obviously have to ban you now, don't I?

 

You Godwined your own argument ;)

[Mandrake5]

 

You have some seriously flawed logic going here

 

Logic? There is no logic: "I Want To Believe!"

[Maior]

...if you don't agree with someone's statement you don't need to PROVE them wrong. you can say in civilised manner...

 

This is the same bloody problem everywhere. Because some people still feel that science is a matter of opinion and expect people who actually take enough INTEREST in an area to actually research and study the problem or even work in it , just "take it easy" and just say that "It's cool man, let's just shoot our mouths off and spread half baked opinions about any subjects and if you disagree, just say it and be done with it". I hope scientists in Slovenia don't think like that otherwise, you have a very serious problem.

[marcos]

And USAF pilots said 'LOL, both sides have rules against this sort of thing'.

 

http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/f15vssu27sm_1.htm

Well if we've learnt one thing from the Luftwaffe Typhoon-Raptor scandal it's that USAF pilots are born liars.:lol:

[GGTharos]

Go on, find some and tell them that to their faces :)

 

Well if we've learnt one thing from the Luftwaffe Typhoon-Raptor scandal it's that USAF pilots are born liars.:lol:

[marcos]

Go on, find some and tell them that to their faces :)

Won't be a problem. G-force is such that they are usually all short-arsed Pinocchios.

[GGTharos]

Well, get on with it already ...

 

Won't be a problem. G-force is such that they are usually all short-arsed Pinocchios.

[Mandrake5]

Well if we've learnt one thing from the Luftwaffe Typhoon-Raptor scandal it's that USAF pilots are born liars.:lol:

 

Any links for the uninformed?

[marcos]

Any links for the uninformed?

Google 'Raptor salad' and 'Raptor kill markings'.:)

 

It was denied for a long time that any such training dogfight had ever taken place and of course 'everyone' (many of whom are on this very forum) claimed they knew an F-22 pilot who'd told them so. It's probably not the USAF pilots who are liars in reality, we have our very own Pinocchios on point.

Edited February 26, 2013 by marcos

[GGTharos]

claimed they knew an F-22 pilot who'd told them so.

 

Citation needed.

[Mandrake5]

Google 'Raptor salad' and 'Raptor kill markings'.:)

 

It was denied for a long time that any such training dogfight had ever taken place and of course 'everyone' (many of whom are on this very forum) claimed they knew an F-22 pilot who'd told them so. It's probably not the USAF pilots who are liars in reality, we have our very own Pinocchios on point.

 

 

Seems an unfair fight until the raptors get their promised helmet sights + aim9x: any dope with a typhoon + HMCS + IRIS-T oughta win the WVR fight against basic aim9m every time, much ado about nothing.....?

 

Can they really detect raptors out to 50k with IRST?...now THAT sounds like a story!

Edited February 26, 2013 by Mandrake5

[GGTharos]

It wasn't an unfair fight, it was quite fair in fact - straight up guns with the Typhoons slicked off, no missiles etc. The Raptors did not get the benefit of a stealth entry.

 

I don't think IRST's were installed on the Typhoons at that point in time. As for 50km ... depends on aspect (more from the rear aspect), weather, and how efficient the F-22's cooling systems are (in which case, less than 50km). 50km head-on 'against a fighter target' is not the same as as 50km head-on against a Raptor. Both the F-22 and F-35 ( IIRC ) use fuel to transfer heat away from the skin, thus reducing their IR signature.

 

From what I did hear, some of the Raptor merges did practice maneuvers to Rmin Iris-T, but the fight was guns only.

 

Regarding the AIM-9M, that can be cued with the radar, and given that you're in WVR and it can cue the 9M some 40 deg off-bore, it's probably a mistake to count the F-22 out in a heater fight. It would be at a disadvantage in a fair merge, yes, but in reality Raptor merges are not likely to be fair.

 

Seems an unfair fight until the raptors get their promised helmet sights + aim9x: any dope with a typhoon + IRST-T oughta win the WVR fight against basic aim9m every time, much ado about nothing.....?

 

Can they really detect raptors out to 50k with IRST?...now THAT sounds like a story!

Edited February 26, 2013 by GGTharos

[Cali]

Well if we've learnt one thing from the Luftwaffe Typhoon-Raptor scandal it's that USAF pilots are born liars.:lol:

 

Won't be a problem. G-force is such that they are usually all short-arsed Pinocchios.

 

I have friends that have flown or still fly in the USAF and they aren't lairs. You would not be saying things like this to their face. Who the heck or you to judge anything like that! Have you dog fought in a fighter jet, do you know what it takes? I'll tell you that all Air Forces (military) fib a little on all sorts of things. Is anyone actually going to say....we have the crappiest jets or weapons....heck no. Look at Iraq, they thought they were good, but that didn't work out too well for them did it? Sure there may have been a few times where a better/newer aircraft got beat. You can't win them all sometimes and sometimes things just magically line up for the other guy.

 

You love to argue in these 2 sub-forums about how this sucks compared to that. You are going by reading the internet, do you realize that a lot of things aren't 100% true. Deception is a good tactic used by people to get more stuff.....a.k.a military funding is one of them. Do you have any idea what actually happens in a military in day-to-day operations? So before you start assuming stuff that you don't know the full story, maybe think first about it.

[Snoopy]

You are going by reading the internet, do you realize that a lot of things aren't 100% true. Deception is a good tactic used by people to get more stuff.....a.k.a military funding is one of them. Do you have any idea what actually happens in a military in day-to-day operations? So before you start assuming stuff that you don't know the full story, maybe think first about it.

 

 

Best post in this thread yet! Basically along the same thing I've started to type more times than I can count but figured why waste my breath :thumbup:.

[Double_D]

Haven't you heard: US Military grounded the F-35 fleet, for a crack in one of its blades..:music_whistling:

 

Edited:

 

Here is the link: http://thediplomat.com/flashpoints-blog/2013/02/26/f-35-grounded-due-to-engine-issues/

[Snoopy]

Haven't you heard: US Military grounded the F-35 fleet, for a crack in one of its blades..:music_whistling:

 

Edited:

 

Here is the link: http://thediplomat.com/flashpoints-blog/2013/02/26/f-35-grounded-due-to-engine-issues/

 

So? This happens on older airframes often as well.

 

A few years ago they grounded the entire USAF F-15 fleet for a few months because of structural issues...the 15 has been in service for over 30 years!

[Double_D]

So? This happens on older airframes often as well.

 

A few years ago they grounded the entire USAF F-15 fleet for a few months because of structural issues...the 15 has been in service for over 30 years!

 

 

True true...but the F-35 is still relatively a much new aircraft..

[GGTharos]

So what? This is routine stuff in aircraft development and lifespan. Do you think such things never occured before?

 

Do you think that the USAF guys, or USN, or USMC and LM are a bunch of idiots sitting on their butts and not sorting this on day one?

 

Same thing as the F-22 oxygen issue - do you think the USAF was a bunch of idiots sitting on their butts, or maybe they sorted it all right away and the media was having a field day for as long as they could drag it on?

 

True true...but the F-35 is still relatively a much new aircraft..

[Snoopy]

So what? This is routine stuff in aircraft development and lifespan. Do you think such things never occured before?

 

Do you think that the USAF guys, or USN, or USMC and LM are a bunch of idiots sitting on their butts and not sorting this on day one?

 

Same thing as the F-22 oxygen issue - do you think the USAF was a bunch of idiots sitting on their butts, or maybe they sorted it all right away and the media was having a field day for as long as they could drag it on?

 

Thanks GG...was typing a reply but you covered it. :thumbup:

[Double_D]

So what? This is routine stuff in aircraft development and lifespan. Do you think such things never occured before?

 

Do you think that the USAF guys, or USN, or USMC and LM are a bunch of idiots sitting on their butts and not sorting this on day one?

 

Same thing as the F-22 oxygen issue - do you think the USAF was a bunch of idiots sitting on their butts, or maybe they sorted it all right away and the media was having a field day for as long as they could drag it on?

 

Far from it...I was just point it out...

[marcos]

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/in-focus-us-navy-next-generation-jammer-proceeds-but-f-35-integration-deferred-indefinitely-371742/

 

The US Navy is moving full-steam ahead on its Next Generation Jammer (NGJ) pod development effort, but integration onto the Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) has been deferred indefinitely.

[marcos]

Seems an unfair fight until the raptors get their promised helmet sights + aim9x: any dope with a typhoon + HMCS + IRIS-T oughta win the WVR fight against basic aim9m every time, much ado about nothing.....?

 

Can they really detect raptors out to 50k with IRST?...now THAT sounds like a story!

No BUT yeah BUT, the Raptor will merge from behind, de-cloak and kill doze Tiffies dead.

 

 

 

 

:lol:

[marcos]

I have friends that have flown or still fly in the USAF and they aren't lairs.

I think if you read my later posts I've acknowledged that. It's the people on forums claiming to have spoke to pilot friends who are liars.

 

It's well known that the Typhoons cheated. They have a special advanced jamming system that switches off the F-22 OBOGS. Occasionally they get drunk back at base and do it for a laugh, even when they're not engaging F-22s.

[Pyroflash]

No BUT yeah BUT, the Raptor will merge from behind, de-cloak and kill doze Tiffies dead.

 

 

 

 

:lol:

 

Yeah, except that's exactly what would happen. If an F-22A were to EVER go to the merge, it would be from a position of absolute advantage. Don't get me wrong, the Tiffy is a good plane, but it's not going to gain an advantage on the Raptor if the fight is "uncaged" so to speak.

[Cali]

I think if you read my later posts I've acknowledged that. It's the people on forums claiming to have spoke to pilot friends who are liars.

 

It's well known that the Typhoons cheated. They have a special advanced jamming system that switches off the F-22 OBOGS. Occasionally they get drunk back at base and do it for a laugh, even when they're not engaging F-22s.

 

I certainly hope you aren't putting me in that category? Every jet I have worked on I known someone that flew them, F-16's, A-10's and B-52's and I do or did talk to this people on a weekly occasion.