Varjo Aero: Общее руководство для новых владельцев

[mbucchia]

42 minutes ago, alfred2704 said:

@mbucchia could you explain which table is to be applied ?

https://varjo.com/use-center/get-to-know-your-headset/getting-the-perfect-image-quality/

4. Varjo Aero running a Varjo native application with foveated rendering (eye tracking calibrated)

or

5. Varjo Aero running a Varjo native application in quad view mode

Number 4 right?

Thank you.

 

It should be 4 and 5, depends on whether you disable eye tracking in the config file as well.

[SaschaFFM]

49 minutes ago, dartagnan said:

Does any changes need to be made to the dcs.exe when using the Aero with this new ED UPDATE FOR MULTI THREADING? If so please help. Thanks in advance.

No, not really. You need to point to the MT dcs.exe which is in the folder \bin-mt and *not* the one in \bin (which is the one if you want to start with ST mode)

[Supmua]

53 minutes ago, dartagnan said:

Does any changes need to be made to the dcs.exe when using the Aero with this new ED UPDATE FOR MULTI THREADING? If so please help. Thanks in advance.

Depends on what you want to do.  DCS.exe can now be run directly from the bin-mt folder without shortcuts or command line, because the mt version's default output is OpenXR.

1. The newest DFR mode.  You need to install mbucchia's DFR foveated mod, and make sure to disable OpenXR Toolkit.  Varjo OpenXR only.  SteamVR OpenXR will run but no gazing support hence no DFR.

2. Non-DFR mode.  Nothing new.  Use either Varjo or SteamVR's OpenXR runtime.

38 minutes ago, mbucchia said:

It should be 4 and 5, depends on whether you disable eye tracking in the config file as well.

Is it possible to make this (eye tracking) work with Steam's OpenXR?

Edited March 19, 2023 by Supmua

[mbucchia]

18 minutes ago, Supmua said:

Is it possible to make this (eye tracking) work with Steam's OpenXR

100% not, SteamVR doesn't have the concept of quad views nor eye tracking.

Edit: OK not 100%, but let's say 99% because tremendous amount of work to reimplement quad views on top of SteamVR and inject the eye tracking from outside of SteamVR 

Not worth the effort for 1 game and 1 headset brand

Edited March 19, 2023 by mbucchia

[RedX]

8 hours ago, Supmua said:

Did some more testings and interestingly no crash at 35 or 39 PPD settings with either Turbo on/off.  So far my specific crash conditions are motion smoothing with PPD at 37 and multiplication factors below 1.

Motion smoothing crash is reproducible for me as follows:

It depends solely on the peripheral area total resolution: 1404x1204 or below and it will crash as soon as motion smoothing is on. 1408x1204 or above and it does not crash. Therefore, "Low" and "Very Low" settings in Varjo Base at multiplier=1 will crash motion smoothing.

Using the default "High" setting in Varjo Base, the minimum multiplier for peripheral is 0.8482.

Focus area may have any multiplier and it does not crash on motion smoothing. Even very low is ok so that your gazing direction is blurred.

I wonder if the values are the same for everyone and why this happens.

[Supmua]

52 minutes ago, RedX said:

Motion smoothing crash is reproducible for me as follows:

It depends solely on the peripheral area total resolution: 1404x1204 or below and it will crash as soon as motion smoothing is on. 1408x1204 or above and it does not crash. Therefore, "Low" and "Very Low" settings in Varjo Base at multiplier=1 will crash motion smoothing.

Using the default "High" setting in Varjo Base, the minimum multiplier for peripheral is 0.8482.

Focus area may have any multiplier and it does not crash on motion smoothing. Even very low is ok so that your gazing direction is blurred.

I wonder if the values are the same for everyone and why this happens.

No idea, but it's something to avoid for now I guess.  Good finding on the peripheral setting tho.

1st mission of Hornet Syria campaign (Op Inherent Resolve) is very performance heavy on the ground.  I got around 40 fps just taxiing along to the runway, tons of ground objects at the starting airfield...and I'm using the settings that gave me 90 fps with all the free flights except Marianas.  Once up in the air it's back to 80-90 though.  So despite all the good improvements we got recently the congested areas can still kill the fps, likely CPU related.

Edited March 19, 2023 by Supmua

[Slick Twitchy]

With the recent update, I had to use the command line parameters again. 

 

Edited March 19, 2023 by Slick Twitchy

[Supmua]

1 hour ago, Slick Twitchy said:

With the recent update, I had to use the command line parameters again. 

 

 

For the mt version you shouldn’t need to, but it’s also a separate exe in a different folder, so your old shortcut for the original exe will not run it.  The st version still outputs OpenVR, and will still need command line if you want to run in OpenXR.

[HornedGod]

On 3/18/2023 at 5:28 PM, Supmua said:

OK, mbucchia has released DFR support for the Aero's quad view mode.  Check it out.  Note that this is not compatible with OXRTK, and the quad view off extension wrapper will need to be removed as well.  This is only for Varjo OpenXR runtime as Steam runtime does not have quad view support.  Major performance increase compared to stereo view even at the highest setting due to proper dynamic foveation support.

Home · mbucchia/Varjo-Foveated Wiki · GitHub

 

This is a really exciting development. Kudos to @mbucchiato making it a reality.

I thought I'd share the results of some quick tests, which show great promise for DFR going forward but also raises a question or two (but when does anything in DCS not).

I've been testing with 35 PPD set in VB, a mix between medium and high settings in DCS and default settings for the new DFR mode.

I've been just spawning into two of the Instant Action missions for the AH-64D on the Syria map, waiting for things to settle and observing FPS.

Dawn Express

Without DFR: ~80 FPS

With DFR: ~90 FPS

Hot Ramp Start

Without DFR: ~70 FPS

With DFR: ~60 FPS

So the 10% bump in Dawn Express is a very nice addition. But the 10% drop in the Hot Ramp Start is puzzling. 

DFR does seem to reduce the amount of FPS variance but that's just a subjective call. 

[Supmua]

11 minutes ago, HornedGod said:

This is a really exciting development. Kudos to @mbucchiato making it a reality.

I thought I'd share the results of some quick tests, which show great promise for DFR going forward but also raises a question or two (but when does anything in DCS not).

I've been testing with 35 PPD set in VB, a mix between medium and high settings in DCS and default settings for the new DFR mode.

I've been just spawning into two of the Instant Action missions for the AH-64D on the Syria map, waiting for things to settle and observing FPS.

Dawn Express

Without DFR: ~80 FPS

With DFR: ~90 FPS

Hot Ramp Start

Without DFR: ~70 FPS

With DFR: ~60 FPS

So the 10% bump in Dawn Express is a very nice addition. But the 10% drop in the Hot Ramp Start is puzzling. 

DFR does seem to reduce the amount of FPS variance but that's just a subjective call. 

Very early release so there'll be some bugs to iron out.  Too bad the only on-screen graphs you can see is GPU frametimes via DCS counter, so I have no idea what's going on with CPU frametimes in this mode.  Perhaps it's more taxing to CPU in certain scenarios due to constant eye-tracking.  I did experience poor fps in some campaign missions when CPU was taxed with multiple ground/air objects especially when on the ground.  If anybody found a way to check CPU frametimes from within DCS without removing the headset let me know, preferable in graph mode so you can track frametime spikes and intervals.

There's also an option to disable eyetracking in this mode via settings.cfg, haven't got a chance to try this yet so no idea how the perfomance is without ET.

Edited March 20, 2023 by Supmua

[mbucchia]

Maybe try turbo_mode=0 as well. I'm told it's been reducing framerate in some circumstances.

[Supmua]

1 hour ago, mbucchia said:

Maybe try turbo_mode=0 as well. I'm told it's been reducing framerate in some circumstances.

Turbo on caused both CPU and GPU FT spikes with DCS MT (non-DFR) at regular intervals in Steam OpenXR seen via fpsVR graphs (as well as low avg FT numbers below 11 in OXRTK yet final fps was 50-60s—reproducible on my PC), but not with Varjo OpenXR.  I haven’t tried to Turbo off with DFR though, been messing around with various combinations of resolution settings via multiplication factors and DCS PD setting, probably should check turbo option next time I run DCS.  
Running an hour long DLC campaign mission also took a big chunk of time, but it’s much better for picking up glitches than quick flights that has no complex logics/scripts/voiceover/music.  I do notice 1-2 sec pauses in complex missions also but rare, not sure if it was CPU or saturated RAM vs VRAM or DCS being DCS (GPU FT graph was smooth when it happened).

Edited March 20, 2023 by Supmua

[Supmua]

Did some quick comparison test between Varjo Quad DFR and SteamVR Stereo (which lacks DFR support).  Interestingly, very small differences in performance--within 5 fps.  The Quad mode might look slightly better but could be placebo because at this res (4.1K horizontal pix) both show great clarity.  This is at Highest res setting on the Aero.

[darkman222]

Sorry for possibly hijacking the topic here. I am trying to find the most performant combination for DCS with OpenXr with MT.

I am using SteamVR as openXR and I am trying to revert back to the standalone openXR from Varjo Base. Which seems to produce a black output after  I installed the mbucchia OpenXR toolkit. Still investigating.

But ( in case I get the Varjo base OpenXR running again) I need to measure framerates and frame times between the two openXR types. So here is what I just found. fpsVR and the mabucchia toolbox show a difference in frame time of pretty much 1ms.

If I just relied on the mbucchia toolbox to compare frame times it would not matter I guess. But it is still weird that fpsVR and the mbucchia toolbox have such a difference.

Edit: Also see that the Vram usage is displayed differently 13.6 GB vs 9 GB

Where do all the differences come from?

See a screenshot:

 

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by darkman222

[dburne]

Does the Open XR Toolkit  have a default VR  resolution for the  Aero? Like for each Aero base setting, say hi or very high, is there a default resolution for each Varjo setting in Open XR? I do not seem to be able to find one if there is, it will always display the last resolution I have set. 

Just wondering what  Open XR considers Varjo default resolution to be in high or very high base setting.

[Harlikwin]

On 3/17/2023 at 5:57 PM, motoadve said:

Will Open XR toolkit increase performance?

I am pretty happy with how DCS looks in the Varjo Aero, not bother to modify the look, but if this can increase performance then I am in.

I wouldn't say it directly improves performance, but it absolutely lets you make the world look nicer with things like adaptive sharpening (CAS) and then touching up things like the color saturation. If you use CAS you can for example also lower the overal render quality and still have it look nice, so in that sense it can. 

[darkman222]

9 minutes ago, Harlikwin said:

Will Open XR toolkit increase performance?

If you use fixed foveated rendering it will improve performance, with just a little loss of resolution around in the peripheral area

[motoadve]

3 hours ago, Supmua said:

Did some quick comparison test between Varjo Quad DFR and SteamVR Stereo (which lacks DFR support).  Interestingly, very small differences in performance--within 5 fps.  The Quad mode might look slightly better but could be placebo because at this res (4.1K horizontal pix) both show great clarity.  This is at Highest res setting on the Aero.

I reduced peripheral value and saw a pretty good performance increase.

DCS crashes if I use motion smoothing, same as it happens to you.

Just now, darkman222 said:

If you use fixed foveated rendering it will improve performance, with just a little loss of resolution around in the peripheral area

DFR definitely increases performance, the reduced resolution in the peripheral area its hard to notice, the performance increase its worth it.

[Number481]

1 hour ago, dburne said:

Does the Open XR Toolkit  have a default VR  resolution for the  Aero? Like for each Aero base setting, say hi or very high, is there a default resolution for each Varjo setting in Open XR? I do not seem to be able to find one if there is, it will always display the last resolution I have set. 

Just wondering what  Open XR considers Varjo default resolution to be in high or very high base setting.

Re-reading your message, I think I misunderstood what you're asking.. but I'll leave the below intact as well..

OpenXR Toolkit doesn't care what PPD VB is set to.. Whatever you set in VB is what you are going to get in the headset.  *UNLESS* you override the resolution in OpenXR toolkit (this is not enabled by default, in which case OpenXR toolkit plays no part in the final resolution in the headset)

 

Previous reply ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Varjo Base still controls the resolution ('High', 'Highest', etc..)  and you can see the actual peripheral and focus region resolutions listed in VB when you pick one of those presets.

The peripheral and focal multipliers in the configuration file for the DFR layer is exactly that, a multiplier of the listed resolution in VB.

If the resolution listed in VB when you set 'Very High' is 1140x1140 1908x1632, and you set both multipliers to 2.0 (dont do that though!).  You would see VB report the resolutions as 2280x2280 3816x3264 once you start DCS

 

Leaving the config file at 1 and 1 for peripheral and focal will give you the resolutions shown in VB by default for any given PPD setting

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by mjfrisby

[dburne]

I am afraid I was not clear enough in my request. This has nothing to do with DFR or that new stuff being worked on currently.

Just the base resolution. The resolution I set in Open XR Developer Tools stays where I have it set to and I don't see a default setting. So say I want to know the resolution of Very High setting in Varjo Base with Varjo's Open XR, any way to tell what that is?

[Supmua]

7 minutes ago, dburne said:

I am afraid I was not clear enough in my request. This has nothing to do with DFR or that new stuff being worked on currently.

Just the base resolution. The resolution I set in Open XR Developer Tools stays where I have it set to and I don't see a default setting. So say I want to know the resolution of Very High setting in Varjo Base with Varjo's Open XR, any way to tell what that is?

Yes. With OXRTK resolution override section, turn it on and it will show the current rendering res which can be adjusted from there.  Alternatively you can open OXRTK log file from companion app and it will also show that and more. 
 

Your VB setting is like your windows desktop resolution setting which is considered the default setting by other apps. 
 

For Very High the horizontal pixel is around 3.6K.  For Highest it’s 4.1K.  When you drop the setting one step it will typically drop GPU FT by 1.5-2ms (this is my pre-DFR experiences, not sure if this will still be the case with DFR)

Edited March 20, 2023 by Supmua

[dburne]

3 minutes ago, Supmua said:

Yes. With OXRTK resolution override section, turn it on and it will show the current rendering res which can be adjusted from there.  Alternatively you can open OXRTK log file from companion app and it will also show that and more. 
 

Your VB setting is like your windows desktop resolution setting which is considered the default setting by other apps. 
 

For Very High the horizontal pixel is around 3.6K.  For Highest it’s 4.1K.  When you drop the setting one step it will typically drop GPU FT by 1.5-2ms. 

 

 

Thanks for the info. I guess for what I am asking though there is not an easy way to tell what my default resolution if set to very high would be as it has been changed in OXRTK already and it stays where it was last set. I do use the resolution override to change my resolution setting. But say I have done this with the high setting and I then change Varjo Base to very high setting. But I go back in resolution setting in OXRTK and it still shows the same I had to set to when it was on High setting.

[Number481]

1 minute ago, dburne said:

 

Thanks for the info. I guess for what I am asking though there is not an easy way to tell what my default resolution if set to very high would be as it has been changed in OXRTK already and it stays where it was last set. I do use the resolution override to change my resolution setting. But say I have done this with the high setting and I then change Varjo Base to very high setting. But I go back in resolution setting in OXRTK and it still shows the same I had to set to when it was on High setting.

nullhttps://varjo.com/use-center/get-to-know-your-headset/getting-the-perfect-image-quality/

 

3 minutes ago, mjfrisby said:

But say I have done this with the high setting and I then change Varjo Base to very high setting. But I go back in resolution setting in OXRTK and it still shows the same I had to set to when it was on High setting.

That's because you are "overriding it".. it is ignoring what VB is trying to use

[dburne]

7 minutes ago, mjfrisby said:

nullhttps://varjo.com/use-center/get-to-know-your-headset/getting-the-perfect-image-quality/

 

 

Thanks but again that does me no good, apparently I am not stating this in a way that is clear enough to grasp.

I would like the Open XR Resolution setting to reflect what my default would be for the setting in Varjo Base. Once I have entered a value in Open XR Toolkit for resolution it keeps that resolution. So no matter what I select in Varjo Base when I select to override resolution it is automatically going to input the last value I entered for it. I see no way to get it back to default resolution say as a starting point.

Edited March 20, 2023 by dburne

[Supmua]

2 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

Thanks but again that does me no good, apparently I am not stating this in a way that is clear enough to grasp.

I would like the Open XR Resolution setting to reflect what my default would be for the setting in Varjo Base. Once I have entered a value in Open XR Toolkit for resolution it keeps that resolution. So no matter what I select in Varjo Base when I select to override resolution it is automatically going to input the last value I entered for it. 

Oh ok. OXRTK is per app I think. So settings vary as you don’t want to use your exact DCS settings with MSFS for example.  For global res you’d still rely on VB which unfortunately provides only 6 settings.