TaxDollarsAtWork Posted May 13, 2022 Posted May 13, 2022 Might not be the right place but I hope Deka devs might give us some insights into the pros and cons of the J-10 vs the Flanker family IRL Who has better sustained turn performance What game plans do J-10 and J-11 pilots prefer, angles or energy etc interesting things about the J-10s performance up close All other info is welcome too if you have excerpts from documentaries etc 1 1
BeastyBaiter Posted May 13, 2022 Posted May 13, 2022 I suspect you'd be disappointed if you learned how little mock dogfighting modern fighter pilots do. It's also not a very practical thing to do in real life anyways. It was a bad idea in WW1 and WW2 and hasn't gotten any better with age. While it certainly happened in real life on many occasions, that doesn't mean it was smart. It is fun to do in video games though. In any case, I'm sure basic performance charts like max sustained turn rate exist. I think and hope our flight models adhere to them closely. That likely isn't the kind of thing they can just post on a forum due to copyright, though. 1 System specs: i5-10600k (4.9 GHz), RX 6950XT, 32GB DDR4 3200, NVMe SSD, Reverb G2, WinWing Super Libra/Taurus, CH Pro Pedals.
PLAAF Posted May 26, 2022 Posted May 26, 2022 (edited) On 5/14/2022 at 2:40 AM, TaxDollarsAtWork said: Might not be the right place but I hope Deka devs might give us some insights into the pros and cons of the J-10 vs the Flanker family IRL Who has better sustained turn performance What game plans do J-10 and J-11 pilots prefer, angles or energy etc interesting things about the J-10s performance up close All other info is welcome too if you have excerpts from documentaries etc What do you mean by BFM? I heard some Pakistan pilots talked about the performance of J-10 after the joint drill game. It appears that J-10 has better instantaneous turn performance than JF-17, but lower sustained performance. Radar wise, J-10A and J-11B have the same X-band doppler pulse radar. J-10C and J-11D has the same ASEA radar. Edited June 8, 2022 by PLAAF My Adorable Communist Errand Girls Led by me, the Communist Errand Panda
Torbernite Posted June 6, 2022 Posted June 6, 2022 2022/5/27 AM3点50分，PLAAF说： What do you mean by BFM? I heard some Pakistan pilots talked about the performance of J-10 after the joint drill game. It appears that J-10 has better instantaneous turn performance than JF-17, but low sustained performance. Radar wise, J-10A and J-11B have the same X-band doppler pulse radar. J-10C and J-11D has the same ASEA radar. I don't know that their radars are same. I thought at least a larger antenna should be put into a Flanker's nose before. Does anyone see my FF Su-27? It's about 22m in length and 15m in width. It should be here! I saw it just now! Anyone touched it? What? I'm dreaming?
PLAAF Posted June 6, 2022 Posted June 6, 2022 15 minutes ago, Torbernite said: I don't know that their radars are same. I thought at least a larger antenna should be put into a Flanker's nose before. Correction, similar radar. My Adorable Communist Errand Girls Led by me, the Communist Errand Panda
TaxDollarsAtWork Posted June 7, 2022 Author Posted June 7, 2022 On 5/26/2022 at 3:50 PM, PLAAF said: What do you mean by BFM? I heard some Pakistan pilots talked about the performance of J-10 after the joint drill game. It appears that J-10 has better instantaneous turn performance than JF-17, but low sustained performance. Radar wise, J-10A and J-11B have the same X-band doppler pulse radar. J-10C and J-11D has the same ASEA radar. Dogfighting you know Who turns tighter who has better sustained turn etc
PLAAF Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 On 6/8/2022 at 8:09 AM, TaxDollarsAtWork said: Dogfighting you know Who turns tighter who has better sustained turn etc Not sure. which has the better sustained turn rate? Su-27 or JF-17? JF-17 has better sustained turn rate than J-10. J-10 has better instantaneous turning rate than JF-17. My Adorable Communist Errand Girls Led by me, the Communist Errand Panda
F-2 Posted July 19, 2022 Posted July 19, 2022 Quote According to Lei Qiang, F-16's horizontal turning capability doesn't measure up to J-10. J-10's vertical turning capability is even with F-16. Su-27's vertical maneuver capability is stronger than J-10 because it has higher T/W ratio. Horizontal turning is even. But rolling rate J-10 is much better. At Mach 1.2, Su-27 has roll rate of 20-30 degrees/sec,(this has to be a mistake) while J-10 has more than 200 degrees/sec. I’m assuming he’s talking about ITR to make the statement compatible with the Pakistani evaluation. Note this is a J-10a. https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/chengdu-j-10-vigorous-dragon-fighter.506/page-4 1
Top Jockey Posted July 26, 2022 Posted July 26, 2022 On 5/13/2022 at 5:40 PM, TaxDollarsAtWork said: Might not be the right place but I hope Deka devs might give us some insights into the pros and cons of the J-10 vs the Flanker family IRL Who has better sustained turn performance What game plans do J-10 and J-11 pilots prefer, angles or energy etc interesting things about the J-10s performance up close All other info is welcome too if you have excerpts from documentaries etc Very good. The kind of stuf i've always appreciated the most. (I've created similar threads also, regarding MiG-29 vs Su-27 in pure airframe BFM capabilities.) So, it's a pertinent one, and I hope more people would share their insight here. Jets Helis Maps FC 3 JA 37 Ka-50 Caucasus F-14 A/B MiG-23 Mi-8 MTV2 Nevada F-16 C MiG-29 F/A-18 C Mirage III E MiG-21 bis Mirage 2000 C i7-4790 K , 16 GB DDR3 , GTX 1660 Ti 6GB , Samsung 860 QVO 1TB
F-2 Posted October 19, 2023 Posted October 19, 2023 Lecture by J-10 test pilot showing relative superiority of each aircraft 1
Top Jockey Posted October 19, 2023 Posted October 19, 2023 Interesting, the kind of info I appreciate. Judging by the numbers, i suppose the diagram shows the Sustained Turn Rate in DPS for the Mach number. Also the J-11 would be the Su-30 in this case ? 1 Jets Helis Maps FC 3 JA 37 Ka-50 Caucasus F-14 A/B MiG-23 Mi-8 MTV2 Nevada F-16 C MiG-29 F/A-18 C Mirage III E MiG-21 bis Mirage 2000 C i7-4790 K , 16 GB DDR3 , GTX 1660 Ti 6GB , Samsung 860 QVO 1TB
F-2 Posted October 19, 2023 Posted October 19, 2023 15 minutes ago, Top Jockey said: Interesting, the kind of info I appreciate. Judging by the numbers, i suppose the diagram shows the Sustained Turn Rate in DPS for the Mach number. Also the J-11 would be the Su-30 in this case ? Yea, I kinda flubed not mentioning it was the Su-30, but I assume they should be similar. Also Antidotally on the Chinese internet the J-10a is supposed to be the best dogfighter. No clue if it’s true though.
F-2 Posted August 30, 2024 Posted August 30, 2024 Quote Q: How does the Su-27 compare to the J-10? Zhang: The Su-27 is a very good aircraft. It has many safety restrictions, and the aircraft's follow-up and response characteristics are perfectly integrated with the aircraft. However, its concept and ideas still have many traces of second-generation aircraft, so some characteristics are not satisfactory, especially the aircraft's controllability is still different from that of the J-10. When flying the J-10, if you ignore the aircraft for a short period of time, the aircraft will still fly in its original state, and the computer on the aircraft will automatically correct the external interference, but the Su-27 cannot do this. So I still like to fly the J-10, which fully meets the design performance requirements. But the Su-27's flying quality in terms of low-speed performance is slightly better than that of the J-10. A. The J-10 has better control performance than the Su-27. If you leave the aircraft alone for a short period of time, the aircraft's computer will automatically correct for external interference, but the Su-27 cannot do this. The MiG-29 has short legs and is a light aircraft, so this combination is a combination of light and heavy. Our country's Su-27 series is heavier than the J-10 series, and its "legs" are longer. The weapons mounted on the two aircraft are similar. However, in terms of air combat or air-to-air combat, the J-10 is still relatively superior to the original Su-27. This is related to the relatively advanced radar system of the J-10, the original mounted weapon system, and the aircraft's control performance. In the long run, we will still have to match them together 1
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