Which version will receive ATLIS pod and AS30L?

[bennyboy9800]

Which flyable versions of the Mirage F1 will feature the centerline mounted ATLIS pod in combination with AS30L laser guided missiles? 

It seems this combinations was seen most prominently on Iraqi F1EQs during the Iran-Iraq War.

The Iraqis initially used French stores until supply was cut off, at which point they began using Russian Kh29s, as seen above. 

This page is a good reference:

http://www.airvectors.net/avmirf1.html

Edited July 28, 2022 by bennyboy9800

[WinterH]

1 hour ago, bennyboy9800 said:

Which flyable versions of the Mirage F1 will feature the centerline mounted ATLIS pod in combination with AS30L laser guided missiles? 

None. ATLIS was only a thing on EQs in later batches apparently. Aerges said about a year ago they may much later down the line consider making other variants too if relevant docs/info can be found on them, but that may not be too easy/likely for the EQs.

Apart from F1EQ5 and EQ6, the only Mirage F1s that ever used targeting pods seem to be much later MF2000 ASTRAC update for Moroccan F1s from 2005.

In any case, Spanish ones never had the capability, not even the F1M.

I've read airvectors page on Mirage F1 many times  but there really seems to be no solid reference at F1s with any sort of targeting pod apart from off the cuff mentions in articles like that one.

Edit: I'd really love it if we eventually can get the EQ though.

Also edit: In the photos you share it is an even crazier combination though: ATLIS + Kh-29L missiles, as Iraqis did adapt some Russian weapons they had to the Mirage apparently.

Edited July 28, 2022 by WinterH

[bennyboy9800]

11 hours ago, WinterH said:

None. ATLIS was only a thing on EQs in later batches apparently. Aerges said about a year ago they may much later down the line consider making other variants too if relevant docs/info can be found on them, but that may not be too easy/likely for the EQs.

Apart from F1EQ5 and EQ6, the only Mirage F1s that ever used targeting pods seem to be much later MF2000 ASTRAC update for Moroccan F1s from 2005.

 

That's a shame, seems the most capable weaponry available to the F1 platform were exclusively Iraqi... and now possibly Iranian. 

 

11 hours ago, WinterH said:

there really seems to be no solid reference at F1s with any sort of targeting pod apart from off the cuff mentions in articles like that one.

I should direct you to the images and accompanying videos of targeting pod equipped F1s attacking a large variety of targets during the Iran Iraq war. I'd say these are pretty credible sources of this system being used in combat.

Edited July 28, 2022 by bennyboy9800

[WinterH]

22 minutes ago, bennyboy9800 said:

I should direct you to the images and accompanying videos of targeting pod equipped F1s attacking a large variety of targets during the Iran Iraq war. I'd say these are pretty credible sources of this system being used in combat.

Yes but those are F1EQs, I've meant more as ATLIS or other targeting pods being a thing on other F1 variants.

[bennyboy9800]

On 7/27/2022 at 11:15 PM, WinterH said:

None. ATLIS was only a thing on EQs in later batches apparently. Aerges said about a year ago they may much later down the line consider making other variants too if relevant docs/info can be found on them, but that may not be too easy/likely for the EQs.

 

 

https://www.caea.info/fr/la-collection/le-materiel/37-collection/avio-de-combat/515-mirage-f1eq

https://www.caea.info/fr/la-collection/le-materiel/37-collection/avio-de-combat/195-dassault-mirage-f1-bq

There is one F1-BQ and one F1-EQ6 that can be seen at Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine, Bordeau-Merignac Airport, France. Maybe they can reference these. I'd certainly argue that the EQ variant suites DCS the best. 

Edited July 30, 2022 by bennyboy9800

[Fromthedeep]

5 hours ago, bennyboy9800 said:

There is one F1-BQ and one F1-EQ6 that can be seen at Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine, Bordeau-Merignac Airport, France. Maybe they can reference these. I'd certainly argue that the EQ variant suites DCS the best. 

I highly doubt there's enough data to actually properly implement these variants. While it's obviously subjective, I'd much prefer them to focus on other prevalent, old school platforms that  the Spanish Air Force utilized in the 70s and the 80s, like the F-104 and the Mirage III, instead of yet another smart bomb truck. I'm willing to be that most people like the F1 due to its highly challenging and skill reliant playstyle. Using LGBs and guided anti ship missiles completely defeat that purpose, and at that point, it would be one of the many smart weapon capable multirole fighters that we have in DCS. 

[WinterH]

1 hour ago, Fromthedeep said:

I'm willing to be that most people like the F1 due to its highly challenging and skill reliant playstyle. Using LGBs and guided anti ship missiles completely defeat that purpose, and at that point, it would be one of the many smart weapon capable multirole fighters that we have in DCS. 

It isn't nearly this "black and white", "this or that" though. I am one of those who prefer quirky handling and quirkier systems of old aircraft in DCS, and I tend to get bored by modern aircraft. To each their own, I don't mean to say "this is the only true way!!" of course, I know modern aircraft offer different things to explore, learn, and do, it's just not exciting for me.

On the other hand, I see absolutely no reason for NOT having 70s-80s-90s smart but still oldie tech like we will get with F-4E variants. Old school targeting pods, missiles, "computerized" bombing modes (that are still VERY involved, or on the flips very simple compared to more modern ones), etc on those old quirky handling birds are super cool for me. In my view, they really don't make it quite as dull as modern aircraft tends to be for me. Using LGBs with those aren't the same as with more modern things after all, there is a lot less systems helping, and a lot more effort put in. Viggen's RB 04s don't feel like a complicated magic bullet, more like "throw enough, try not to die doing it, and see if any sticks" kind of experience. RBS 15F is different, but it is from mid 90s AJS update after all, and I'd argue even its use is weird and funky and somewhat cool compared to later systems, but this latter part is very much subjective I can admit.

Not to mention that Mirage F1EQ would be super fitting to many Middle East scenarios. While we don't have the exactly right terrains, we can still make a semi plausible Iran-Iraq war match up, or a Desert Storm, or a hypothetical Iran vs West, or hypothetical counter insurgency operations by Iran etc.

Thus, IF information was found to do justice to it, I'd much prefer Mirage F1EQ than F-104, which wouldn't be a particularly interesting aircraft for me despite I tend to like that era a lot. Mirage III can be discussion, I do want some Mirage III/Vs in DCS, but Razbam is already planning/working on one.

104 is just "climb fast, go fast, (now I will annoy its fans) crash fast" and not much more imo  If we'll get something like that, I'd like it to go full meme and be a MiG-25 instead

[jojo]

1 hour ago, WinterH said:

It isn't nearly this "black and white", "this or that" though. I am one of those who prefer quirky handling and quirkier systems of old aircraft in DCS, and I tend to get bored by modern aircraft. To each their own, I don't mean to say "this is the only true way!!" of course, I know modern aircraft offer different things to explore, learn, and do, it's just not exciting for me.

On the other hand, I see absolutely no reason for NOT having 70s-80s-90s smart but still oldie tech like we will get with F-4E variants. Old school targeting pods, missiles, "computerized" bombing modes (that are still VERY involved, or on the flips very simple compared to more modern ones), etc on those old quirky handling birds are super cool for me. In my view, they really don't make it quite as dull as modern aircraft tends to be for me. Using LGBs with those aren't the same as with more modern things after all, there is a lot less systems helping, and a lot more effort put in. Viggen's RB 04s don't feel like a complicated magic bullet, more like "throw enough, try not to die doing it, and see if any sticks" kind of experience. RBS 15F is different, but it is from mid 90s AJS update after all, and I'd argue even its use is weird and funky and somewhat cool compared to later systems, but this latter part is very much subjective I can admit.

Not to mention that Mirage F1EQ would be super fitting to many Middle East scenarios. While we don't have the exactly right terrains, we can still make a semi plausible Iran-Iraq war match up, or a Desert Storm, or a hypothetical Iran vs West, or hypothetical counter insurgency operations by Iran etc.

Thus, IF information was found to do justice to it, I'd much prefer Mirage F1EQ than F-104, which wouldn't be a particularly interesting aircraft for me despite I tend to like that era a lot. Mirage III can be discussion, I do want some Mirage III/Vs in DCS, but Razbam is already planning/working on one.

104 is just "climb fast, go fast, (now I will annoy its fans) crash fast" and not much more imo  If we'll get something like that, I'd like it to go full meme and be a MiG-25 instead

For AG, Mirage F1 EQ5 or EQ6 would feel like M-2000C weapon system with targeting pod with laser guided bombs and missilesplus anti-ship and anti-radar missiles.
INS, HUD and AG bombing modes would be similar.
EQ6 would have the added benefit to get a similar RWR?

Off course, you have less thrust, no fly by wire and still not as good radar in AA.

 

[bennyboy9800]

6 hours ago, Fromthedeep said:

I highly doubt there's enough data to actually properly implement these variants. While it's obviously subjective, I'd much prefer them to focus on other prevalent, old school platforms that  the Spanish Air Force utilized in the 70s and the 80s, like the F-104 and the Mirage III, instead of yet another smart bomb truck. I'm willing to be that most people like the F1 due to its highly challenging and skill reliant playstyle. Using LGBs and guided anti ship missiles completely defeat that purpose, and at that point, it would be one of the many smart weapon capable multirole fighters that we have in DCS. 

This just sounds like one massive opinion from someone who doesn't understand nuance between platforms. Telling me than a properly modeled F1EQ may as well be a F-16C blk50, solely because they share a generally similar payload is laughable. You may as well tell me that we don't need an F1 at all because the M2000 exists... 

Edited July 30, 2022 by bennyboy9800

[bennyboy9800]

4 hours ago, WinterH said:

Thus, IF information was found to do justice to it, I'd much prefer Mirage F1EQ than F-104, which wouldn't be a particularly interesting aircraft for me despite I tend to like that era a lot.

If you wanted to fly the f-104 just download the vsn mod. Like you said, it isn't captivating enough to have its own module. 

[Fromthedeep]

7 hours ago, WinterH said:

Using LGBs with those aren't the same as with more modern things after all, there is a lot less systems helping, and a lot more effort put in. Viggen's RB 04s don't feel like a complicated magic bullet, more like "throw enough, try not to die doing it, and see if any sticks" kind of experience

The EQ-5's pod, based on the footage looks fairly modern to me.

 

7 hours ago, WinterH said:

Razbam is already planning/working on one.

I don't think it's reasonable to expect this to come out in this decade.

3 hours ago, bennyboy9800 said:

This just sounds like one massive opinion from someone who doesn't understand nuance between platforms. Telling me than a properly modeled F1EQ may as well be a F-16C blk50, solely because they share a generally similar payload is laughable

Since DCS literally doesn't model the vast majorty of factors that give depth to LGB deliveries, the difference is pretty much negligible. The only way to have captivating, old-school cool air to ground gameplay is with manual bombing.

 

3 hours ago, bennyboy9800 said:

F1 at all because the M2000 exists

I'm not sure how that makes any kind of sense. The M2000 is a modernized, 90s era fighter bomber with advanced fly by wire, highly capable Fox 1s, a great PD radar and a plethora of computed dumb bomb delivery options. Apples to orangutans.

[jojo]

18 hours ago, Fromthedeep said:

I'm not sure how that makes any kind of sense. The M2000 is a modernized, 90s era fighter bomber with advanced fly by wire, highly capable Fox 1s, a great PD radar and a plethora of computed dumb bomb delivery options. Apples to orangutans.

Just for the record: the computed bombing modes found in the M-2000C are pretty much the same on al Dassault's fighters/ attack aircraft provided with an INS and ranging system since the early 1980's, starting with Super Etendard fielded from 1978 !
To be fair, it's plenty fun and old school to manage your INS drift and you need to put your eyes on target or IP to be able to bomb something.

You could expect the same with Mirage F1 EQ...

Sure, it's a wet dream to find the necessary data 

[Llanero]

At least one of the members of Aerges/Aviodev is closely related by family with pilots of the Spanish Air Force. That´s why they have access to good documentation of the CASA C-101, the Spanish versions of the Mirage F1, and probably other planes of the Spanish Air Force like the F-4C Phantom II, the Mirage III or the F/A-18A+. But I don´t think it´s so easy for them to find documentation of airplanes and variants of other countries. So I would not be optimistic about variants of the F1 from Iraq, Morocco or other countries. 

[jojo]

3 hours ago, Llanero said:

At least one of the members of Aerges/Aviodev is closely related by family with pilots of the Spanish Air Force. That´s why they have access to good documentation of the CASA C-101, the Spanish versions of the Mirage F1, and probably other planes of the Spanish Air Force like the F-4C Phantom II, the Mirage III or the F/A-18A+. But I don´t think it´s so easy for them to find documentation of airplanes and variants of other countries. So I would not be optimistic about variants of the F1 from Iraq, Morocco or other countries. 

Yes, lack of documentation is often the limiting factor