F-14A and MS Sidewinder 2 FFB

[JupiterJoe]

Have you recently tried the missions I've mentioned above?

I've just blanked it off the sensor with black electrical tape.

[MAXsenna]

Have you recently tried the missions I've mentioned above?
I've just blanked it off the sensor with black electrical tape.

No, but I can.
I'm just thinking it could be something wrong with the sensor as I've never seen anyone reporting something like that on these forums. I just took the grip apart, (it's a bitch to put together though), and removed the sensor, as the tape kept falling off/getting dislocated. I did consider adding some silicon/paint into the wholes, but then I just decised to see what it was like inside, and that was that. Many others have added so sort of switch on the base Instead, to mimic the sensor on and off.

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[JupiterJoe]

Thanks Maxsenna.  I too have taken the stick & base apart, mainly to see if it looked worn inside.  It looked brand new, so I am not certain my issues are hardware related (but denial isn't a river in Egypt), but as you say, if no one else is experiencing what I'm experiencing, then I guess it must be a hardware issue.  The stick works great with the P-51, but of course that doesn't have autopilot modes.  It's frustrating, because autopilot works flawlessly with my non-ffb stick and the Sidewinder works so well when the autopilot isn't engaged. 

In the controls menu, does your stick show a constant 50% forward input in the Y axis?  (see below)

Perhaps you could give those early Speed & Angels missions a try and see if you get that jolt (instead of rumble) when you pass through your lead's wake when taxiing.  I'd appreciate feedback.

Due to those sudden spurious signals in the Y axis, I demonstrated in that video above, I suspect my issues are all stemming from a dodgy potentiometer.  I wonder if I can find a new pot online and swap it out 

 

Edited October 10, 2024 by JupiterJoe

[MAXsenna]

@JupiterJoe I'll get back to you later today. I'm currently trying to optimise the textures for all the maps, and that will take some time.

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[JupiterJoe]

I have just found that Heading Hold won't level out the plane, but Ground Track does.  Is this the same for you? 

[MAXsenna]

4 hours ago, JupiterJoe said:

I have just found that Heading Hold won't level out the plane, but Ground Track does.  Is this the same for you?

Will have a go at this now.

10 hours ago, JupiterJoe said:

I suspect my issues are all stemming from a dodgy potentiometer.

IF you have issues with the pot. You should see spikes in any joystick tester. And you didn't did you?

[JupiterJoe]

@MAXsenna  No I didn't.  I even had a look at it again tonight after taking apart the joystick for the second time.  I took apart the Y axis potentiometer and took these photos.  I cleaned up the pads and contacts and put it all back together.  I then loaded a mission in DCS and was disappointed to still see those elevon fluctuations you saw in that video.  I even had the Virpil joystick testing software running at the same time and saw no spikes when the elevons would flap.  They flap only when the aircraft is in Alt Hold and in a 9+ degree bank.  I remain mystified.

Edited October 10, 2024 by JupiterJoe

[MAXsenna]

@JupiterJoe
LOL! All those missions are cold starts, right? I'm too rusty...

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[JupiterJoe]

Huh?  Did you see my above post.

Edited October 10, 2024 by JupiterJoe

[MAXsenna]

Huh?  Did you see my above post.

Bloody autocorrect! All those missions are cold starts, right?
I don't believe the pot is bad. Now, I do not remember how the stick calculate its position. I assume it's through the pots, while I'm starting to think if the stick position is calculated incorrectly.

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[JupiterJoe]

If you're referring to the Speed & Angels missions, then yes they are cold starts.

It's not necessary to play those unless you're trying to specifically test the breaking of the ffb when passing through the wake of the taxiing lead.  In order to test the flap of the elevons/tailerons any air start will do.  Just switch on Alt Hold and put it in a 20 degree bank.  You could also test Heading Hold by putting it in a 1 to 8 degree bank.  If it doesn’t level itself (like it's supposed to do) select Ground Track.

Edited October 10, 2024 by JupiterJoe

[RustBelt]

Ok so test 1: Turning the joystick 90 degrees and using X for pitch and Y for roll works fairly well. Less center backlash on pitch that way. Allows for finer control with less overcorrecting.  
 

Not helpful for unmodified units. 

Edited October 13, 2024 by RustBelt

[MAXsenna]

If you're referring to the Speed & Angels missions, then yes they are cold starts.
It's not necessary to play those unless you're trying to specifically test the breaking of the ffb when passing through the wake of the taxiing lead.  In order to test the flap of the elevons/tailerons any air start will do.  Just switch on Alt Hold and put it in a 20 degree bank.  You could also test Heading Hold by putting it in a 1 to 8 degree bank.  If it doesn’t level itself (like it's supposed to do) select Ground Track.

Apologies! Planned on testing on Thursday. But I was summoned.

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Ok so test 1: Turning the joystick 90 degrees and using X for pitch and Y for roll works fairly well. Less center backlash on pitch that way. Allows for finer control with less overcorrecting.  
 
Not helpful for unmodified units. 

Really? And swapping the FFB axis doesn't just do the same?

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[RustBelt]

3 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Apologies! Planned on testing on Thursday. But I was summoned.

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Really? And swapping the FFB axis doesn't just do the same?

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Well that only changes the feedback not the input axis. Things go…..sideways when the pitch feedback moves the roll direction of the stick. 

[MAXsenna]

Well that only changes the feedback not the input axis. Things go…..sideways when the pitch feedback moves the roll direction of the stick. 

Yeah, I guess I completely missed the point.

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[RustBelt]

Fired up the old Athlon XP with 98SE and seems like no dice. It will do on the fly deadzone, but it doesn’t change the setting in firmware. 
 

One other longshot is to actually change the rotational position (clock) of the motor gear to “fresh” teeth where the stick centers. Since the position feedback is in the gimbal not the motor, it doesn’t effect function, but may help reduce backlash. 
 

I’m not going to try it personally because by that point I should be working on my VP force build not digging into my old stick. 

[JupiterJoe]

I've noticed if you have A/P on and jump from RIO to Pilot's station, the plane nosedives and will not recover unless you disconnect A/P.  I believe this might be related to ACLS not currently working with FFB.

[JupiterJoe]

Here is a Track file (thank you @MAXsenna), that may feature previously unidentified problems with the Autopilot.  Please note that I use a Microsoft Sidewinder FFB2 stick. 

Just after take-off ATT-HOLD wouldn't work. Cycling the three SAS modes managed to restore some functionality, but pressing A/P Ref still resulted in an un-commanded nosedive.  Very similar to what happens when you try to use ACLS with a FFB stick.  

A Zone 5 mission out of Nellis: Saved Track.trk  Unfortunately this track does not show exactly what I witnessed whilst flying the mission (I didn't get shot for a start), but may still give some clues.  You'll see some shaking occurring when trying to engage the A/P for example.  This is not what I saw at the time, but may represent the problem.  

Perhaps better representative of a problem with ACLS and FFB sticks will be this saved track, where pressing the A/P ref button results in certain doom (last 30 secs of the track):  

 

Saved TrackACLS.trk

Edited February 5 by JupiterJoe

[JupiterJoe]

On 10/9/2024 at 3:42 PM, JupiterJoe said:

Does anybody here fly Reflected's Speed & Angels campaign?  I am noticing the FFB can break when you follow the lead (Paco) to the runway in the early missions.  The wash from his engines makes the stick 'jolt' and then FFB no longer works as it should.  I have reported this in the recent patch feedback thread, but am worried it may just be me.  Thanks.

Here is an example of passing through my Wingman's wake whilst taxiing and it breaking my FFB:

 

Saved TrackFFBBreak.trk

[MAXsenna]

Here is an example of passing through my Wingman's wake whilst taxiing and it breaking my FFB:
 
Saved TrackFFBBreak.trk

Interesting. Have you tried to turn off wake turbulence? And IIRC, Heatblur enforce wake turbulence in all their missions.

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[JupiterJoe]

6 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

Interesting. Have you tried to turn off wake turbulence? And IIRC, Heatblur enforce wake turbulence in all their missions.

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Thank you @MAXsenna.  I didn't know HB enforce wake turbulence.  The global checkbox is unticked, so not sure how I can address that.  Did you see my track where I demonstrate ACLS not working with FFB sticks?  That's the big one.  The wake turbulence thing happens intermittently and needs addressing, but is something I can live with.  The ACLS is a major system and it being unusable with FFB is a huge shame (not that we use it often, but it's nice to have just in case and we all want as realistic a sim as is practicable), and the one I would like to see fixed first. 

Edited February 6 by JupiterJoe

[draconus]

3 hours ago, MAXsenna said:

And IIRC, Heatblur enforce wake turbulence in all their missions.

It's part of the module FM. You can't turn it off and it's not a mission setting. HB advises to turn off the one from DCS options when flying Tomcat.

[MAXsenna]

It's part of the module FM. You can't turn it off and it's not a mission setting. HB advises to turn off the one from DCS options when flying Tomcat.

Oh, really? I've completely misunderstood then. As my Tomcat has wake turbulence even I turn it off in the DCS general settings. I'm positive I read somewhere from HB that wake turbulence was on in the missions, or maybe I opened one.

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@JupiterJoe I'm a away from my computer. Won't know when I can test the track.

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[JupiterJoe]

Here's one I prepared earlier: