Wags94 Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 What exactly is the collective. In FSX, the collective is basicaly the throttle, but in BS there are separate commands for the collective and the Throttle. I don't exactly know what the collective is anymore, help? "Don't tell mom I'm a pilot, she thinks I play piano at a whore house."
Triggerhappy69 Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 The Collective control the angle of attack of the rotorblades.. Basicly when you pull the collective stick up the rotorblades twist so that they "dig in" to the air for more lift.. 'Kinda like a boat propeller does.. "But (504)Brewber said they were'nt friendly.. So I took'em out.!" [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
AlphaOneSix Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 The collective changes the pitch of the rotor blades all together, or "collectively". Essentially all modern, turbine-powered helicopters have automatic throttles that adjust automatically to hold the rotor at a specific RPM. If you increase the collective, the rotor will naturally want to slow down, so the automatic throttle dumps more fuel into the engine to prevent the rotor speed from drooping. Back in the old days, you had to manually adjust the throttle to manage rotor RPM.
Prophet Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 As Alpha says. Its changing the pitch collectively. You understand the term a bit more when you look at how the blade pitch is controlled by the swash plate thing. The collective moves the plate up and down, so collectively the rotors change pitch. The cyclic changes the pitch by tilting the swash plate. The rotors have a cam on them, so as the pass the swash plate they change pitch cyclically. This changes the lift at different degrees in the rotation. I am sure there is a really good graphic that shows all that. edit: here http://science.howstuffworks.com/helicopter5.htm
Frederf Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 The throttle is the engine. The collective is how the engine power is turned into rotor thrust (lift) by increasing the angle of attack of the rotor blades.
Wags94 Posted January 6, 2009 Author Posted January 6, 2009 So collective is the angle of the blades, and the throttle controls how fast the rotor(s) spin? "Don't tell mom I'm a pilot, she thinks I play piano at a whore house."
AlphaOneSix Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 So collective is the angle of the blades, and the throttle controls how fast the rotor(s) spin? The throttle is how fast the engines spin.
Slippery Pete Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 You can find out exactly what the collective does by placing your Ka-50 at the parking area, engines off, and simply watching from external view how the blades move as you raise/lower the collective.
blave Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 So collective is the angle of the blades, and the throttle controls how fast the rotor(s) spin? Yes, BUT: As has been touched on, the throttle controls "spool up" the engines to operating RPM. After that, (at least in the Ka-50) you don't need to worry about the throttles, or cutoff levers of course. The engine management hardware/software will manage the rotor and engine rpms, as long as you don't exceed what the aircraft can "do". Unlike airplanes' propellers (airscrews :D), helicopters' rotor systems operate within a very narrow RPM range. For modern turbine helicopters (including the Ka-50), that RPM range is automatically managed for you. That said - if you try to pull in a big gob of power with the collective, eventually the engines will run out of steam and the rotor RPM will decay. Keep that up long enough, and you will fall out of the sky. BTW I haven't seen a lot of mention of this in the forums, but there is a gauge ("Engine Power Indicator") on the front-most RH wall panel that tells you how much power you're pulling "instantaneously". There are markers for takeoff, "maximum continuous", and cruise power levels. In real life, if you exceed these power levels for an amount of time that corresponds to that level (which is probably documented somewhere), you will incur very expensive damage to the engines, or destroy them outright. For all I know the DCS simulator models those limitations (it wouldn't surprise me!) but I'm not sure of it. Dave B.
Wags94 Posted January 6, 2009 Author Posted January 6, 2009 Okay, Thanks everybody! ;) Um, I don't mean to be bothersome though, I just don't feel like creating a whole new topic for this [newbie] question, but, does anybody know how let me turn the camera using my mouse (mouse-view)? Whenever I take control in a training flight, I have mouse view but in editor missions I cant use the mouse to look. "Don't tell mom I'm a pilot, she thinks I play piano at a whore house."
Frederf Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 I've found that pressing escape twice allows me to return to mouselook. If you don't even have the cursor you want to press the mouse-click-in-cockpit hotkey which is one of the ctrls or alts and C.
miguez Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 LAlt-C will switch your mouse between controlling point-of-view and clickable cursor.
Frederf Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 I think that turns off clickable cockpit. "Switching between" assumes that the mouse is controlling the view or clicking the cockpit which doesn't make sense because the sim by default has the mouse doing both at the same time.
Wags94 Posted January 7, 2009 Author Posted January 7, 2009 LAlt-C will switch your mouse between controlling point-of-view and clickable cursor. Okay, I tried this. I've got mouse-view now :smilewink: I think that turns off clickable cockpit. "Switching between" assumes that the mouse is controlling the view or clicking the cockpit which doesn't make sense because the sim by default has the mouse doing both at the same time. Well, with me. I cant use mouse-view unless I press LAlt-C, but in the training flights i do have a clickable cockpit as well as mouse-view. I'm not sure why, but this happens only when I take control of the shark in training flights. "Don't tell mom I'm a pilot, she thinks I play piano at a whore house."
slug88 Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 ... assumes that the mouse is controlling the view or clicking the cockpit which doesn't make sense because the sim by default has the mouse doing both at the same time. This is false. The fact that you can sometimes use the mouse for both clicking and view panning is a bug. It is intended to work by switching between the two modes. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Frederf Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Huh, my game came with it such that the moue was used to mouse-look and clickable cockpit by default (simultaneously). It doesn't seem like a bug at all but rather a really nice mode that I would miss if I couldn't use it that way. I mean you say it's false, but it's most definitely true that the mouse does both at the same time by default on my edition of the software. I would assume that this would be the same for everyone but who knows. Are you sure that you didn't alter your game from the initial state? Do you press Esc x 2 when you get in the cockpit to free up the mouse? How many people have the game behaving like I describe or how you describe or yet a third way? The key manual states that "C - LAlt Clickable mouse cockpit mode On/Off" which would suggest that Alt+C is just toggling on/off the clickable nature of the cockpit, not anything else.
Buznee Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 The mouse look coupled to the mouse pointer is a great idea I wish it could be more formally implemented as an option. The only issue I have with it is I wish the view would have a smoothing characteristic so that you can move the pointer, wait for the view to move with a slight delay. So lets say your starting the engines, you go on the right side panel to open the shutoff valves for the engines, then move the mouse towards the left side and the view follows smoothly and when you stop the mouse the view settles. Sorta like your head moving with your hands. Maybe you can have a slider in the options to adjust the view smoothing and delay with the mouse pointer movement. Having the view move simultaneously with the pointer seems like a robot soldier. Does not feel natural and actually bothers my eyes after a while.
Frederf Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Try binding Mouse_X and Mouse_Y as view panning axes? Maybe you have some funky mouse or mouse software that is preventing the default axes programming to work? I really think that it is a normal feature and just a few people are having problems with it. What Armed Assault did is have a "box" smaller than the screen that the mouse pointer was free to roam in until it got to the edge of the box and then the screen would pan in that direction. This would allow you to keep your head in one spot if you were clicking a few things in a small zone but then the camera would move with any large change in mouse. The box size was even a slider in the options so you could have it very large or 0-size (classic FPS).
slug88 Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Huh, my game came with it such that the moue was used to mouse-look and clickable cockpit by default (simultaneously). It doesn't seem like a bug at all but rather a really nice mode that I would miss if I couldn't use it that way. I mean you say it's false, but it's most definitely true that the mouse does both at the same time by default on my edition of the software. I would assume that this would be the same for everyone but who knows. Are you sure that you didn't alter your game from the initial state? Do you press Esc x 2 when you get in the cockpit to free up the mouse? How many people have the game behaving like I describe or how you describe or yet a third way? The key manual states that "C - LAlt Clickable mouse cockpit mode On/Off" which would suggest that Alt+C is just toggling on/off the clickable nature of the cockpit, not anything else. http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=573867&highlight=view+bug#post573867 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Frederf Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Wow, it really is a bug eh? That's so hard to believe. I mean it's such an obvious coupling. Every clickable cockpit I've ever used has mouse look and mouse click together, F4, FSX. Well it's a happy bug for me. I figure you could replicate it (if you happened not to have it) by putting Mouse X, Y as your view axes and having clickable cockpit on.
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