Question about pitch and stick throw and elevator movement

[BuzzU]

12 hours ago, imacken said:

I think you may be missing the point. By changing the saturation, you get more stick movement for the same elevator movement, hence adding sensitivity by nature of the longer throw. 
Btw, I do have an extension on my stick. 

 

No, I didn't miss it. I'm familiar with the saturation setting from setting up the mini-stick slew switch. It feels best at 30-35. I'm just saying the saturation setting takes away the sensitivity. So, we agree on it.

I'm surprised to see such a difference between my Warthog and your Virpil. Those who switch from the Warthog base to the Virpil WarBrd should look into the saturation setting to get the full advantage of the Virpil.

I need to check the Warthog HOTAS for the A-10C and see how close it is for pitch and roll.

 

EDIT....I checked the Warthog in the A-10C and it's perfect in pitch and roll. An exact match for full movement for HOTAS, stick in cockpit and control surfaces. I'm impressed they got it all perfect. I even checked the throttle and it's right on too.

Edited October 5, 2022 by BuzzU

[imacken]

Sorry, I am saying that you get more sensitivity with reducing the saturation value.  Reducing the Y say value gives you full stick authority over the elevators.  At the default, you are only using half (approx) of the stick deflection to get full deflection on the elevators.

For me, the A-10C is perfect at defaults, as are all modules except the 3 I mentioned.

BTW, after discussions with @speed-of-heat, I'm now using user curves for the Hornet to emulate the lowering of saturation, but working in a better way for me and Stuart.

[BuzzU]

We're defining sensitivity in different ways but not that important.

[imacken]

Sure, the only point of this discussion is to get a way of making the player stick movement match elevator movement in a few modules, as with using the default settings, it doesn't.

Different solutions for different people, I guess. Always the way!

[BuzzU]

I'm still confused why you only get 50% with the Hornet and we get the same in other planes. There must be an explanation. I'm curious what it is.

[imacken]

Are we talking about the same thing here? This is the relationship between player stick movement and elevator movement when viewed in F2 external view. 

[BuzzU]

Yes, we are. Don't you get 50% and I get 90% with 100% saturation in the Hornet? Yet, we both get 100% in the A-10C.

[imacken]

33 minutes ago, BuzzU said:

Yes, we are. Don't you get 50% and I get 90% with 100% saturation in the Hornet? Yet, we both get 100% in the A-10C.

I get 50% in forward and 85-90% in aft movement.

(BTW, it's the Virpil CM3 base I use not the WarBRD as you mentioned above.)

2 minutes ago, hollywoodvillain said:

Has anyone tested the actual performance of the aircraft and compared the 2 profiles to see if there's a difference?

Perhaps it's just an animation/graphics issue and we see the control surfaces in a different place than they actually are

Do you mean the aircraft might not be reacting to the elevator position we see from the external view?

[BuzzU]

In your first post you said you get 50% of up pitch elevator for 100% of your stick movement. I get 90%.

I didn't say you had the Warbrd. I said for those that do. I can see your sig what you have.

I don't want to argue but you don't seem to understand what i'm saying. So, i'm done here. It really isn't important.

[hollywoodvillain]

Yeah nvm if it's only related to virpil. I have a warbird, but seems as though the warthog is fine so disregard

[imacken]

25 minutes ago, BuzzU said:

In your first post you said you get 50% of up pitch elevator for 100% of your stick movement. I get 90%.

I don't want to argue but you don't seem to understand what i'm saying. So, i'm done here. It really isn't important.

Yep, sorry, my first post was incorrect, I've edited it now. I was just using a gut feeling on that. When I actually measured it on JoyTester, it was about 85% in the aft direction.

Well, it's only as important as any other similar discussion.  Making the saturation/user curve adjustments does make a difference in response. There may be a good design reason why the controls are like this on 3 modules only, but at the moment, we don't know.

[speed-of-heat]

I don't think it is just the virpiil, simple test exercise in the hornet:

remove the pilot , and push the stick forward, you will find the in game stick stops moving forward before the physical stick, at about half the throw of the physical stick (assuming no curves etc).

I started doing this on the Warthog.

[SMN]

On 10/5/2022 at 5:45 PM, speed-of-heat said:

I don't think it is just the virpiil, simple test exercise in the hornet:

remove the pilot , and push the stick forward, you will find the in game stick stops moving forward before the physical stick, at about half the throw of the physical stick (assuming no curves etc).

I started doing this on the Warthog.

I think that the reason is that in real airplanes the deviation of the handle to itself and from itself is different, and on joysticks it is the same on all!
So you have to "finesse" it somehow.

[imacken]

As an aside, the F5 issue is resolved by selecting non-linear joystick in the Specials options. Thanks Stuart!

[speed-of-heat]

3 minutes ago, imacken said:

As an aside, the F5 issue is resolved by selecting non-linear joystick in the Specials options. Thanks Stuart!

welcome mate!

[Deano87]

The reason for the limited forward motion of the F-18 stick, is because the FBW for the F-18 is a "G demand" system and there is much less negative G available, so less stick movement is required.

The reason in the sim that full down elevator happens at 50% forward IRL stick travel is to keep the G demand per inch of stick travel the same for negative and positive G. If you spread the negative stick movement out over the whole of your forward stick movement then negative G is going to be much less sensitive, this may not be desirable having a change in sensitivity as you go through neutral.