F-14 v2.8 - Jamming, JESTER, and Headless Bodies!

[IronMike]

3 minutes ago, Darkdiz said:

First off, LOVE the F-14 module, best DCS investment I have made to date.  I especially enjoy the RIO aspect.

My question arises from the HOJ capability for the AIM7 and 54 with the latest update.

HOW does the RIO command this? Is it automatic? Are there any switches that need to be made to optimize/invoke this mode?

Thanks

Thank you for your very kind words.

If you lock a Jammer with either PDSTT or PSTT it goes automatically to the STT-JAT submode. If you fire either aim-7 or aim-54 in this mode - that is before burnthrough is reached - it will be automatically fired HOJ. If you pass burnthrough STT-JAT will automatically transition back to either PDSTT or PSTT.

[Darkdiz]

1 hour ago, IronMike said:

Thank you for your very kind words.

If you lock a Jammer with either PDSTT or PSTT it goes automatically to the STT-JAT submode. If you fire either aim-7 or aim-54 in this mode - that is before burnthrough is reached - it will be automatically fired HOJ. If you pass burnthrough STT-JAT will automatically transition back to either PDSTT or PSTT.

Outstanding! Thanks for the quick reply.  One other question... The pilot body defaults to on, even though I have it turned off in settings, and I have to press RShift+p to turn it off.  Is there a way to have it default to off?  This only appears to happen in the RIO seat, the pilot seat appears to obey the settings command

[IronMike]

43 minutes ago, Darkdiz said:

Outstanding! Thanks for the quick reply.  One other question... The pilot body defaults to on, even though I have it turned off in settings, and I have to press RShift+p to turn it off.  Is there a way to have it default to off?  This only appears to happen in the RIO seat, the pilot seat appears to obey the settings command

This is a bug, and will be fixed.

[Zhivuchiy]

21 час назад, IronMike сказал:

Thank you for your very kind words.

If you lock a Jammer with either PDSTT or PSTT it goes automatically to the STT-JAT submode. If you fire either aim-7 or aim-54 in this mode - that is before burnthrough is reached - it will be automatically fired HOJ. If you pass burnthrough STT-JAT will automatically transition back to either PDSTT or PSTT.

Do you need to keep lock all the way until impact or can drop it and missile will follow jamming target on its own?

[lunaticfringe]

25 minutes ago, Zhivuchiy said:

Do you need to keep lock all the way until impact or can drop it and missile will follow jamming target on its own?

If it's a Phoenix C, it'll go active on its own.  If it's a Phoenix A, hold until you confirm active.  If it's a Sparrow, you need to let the lock on the jammer transition to a STT lock, because if he stops jamming the shot is trashed (as it will no longer have anything to guide on). 

Edited October 30, 2022 by lunaticfringe

[Kageseigi]

I'm a radar/jamming rookie, so I'm just asking a silly question, but...

I suppose the AIM-54 doesn't have some sort of functionality to initially loft in HoJ mode, then somehow communicate/triangulate range to target to the mothership based on something similar to Link-4C, or even activating its radar while in HoJ mode to test if it has passed burn-through range, and, if so, relay that range back... correct?

If burn-through range is generally 20+ miles in reality (I have no clue), then it seems it would have been beneficial to program an initial loft profile into HoJ mode, assuming that if the launch is within 20 miles of the target, the mothership would have already burned-through the jamming range, meaning it wouldn't be practical to launch in HoJ mode in the first place.

I don't know how the AIM-54 was actually programmed in reality. Is it the missile itself that tracks the jamming signal, independent from the mothership? If so, it really does seem more logical to have a high initial loft, then try to find and track the jammer once it gets altitude. Or at least a moderate loft that keeps the jamming signal within its tracking limits. That way, if the target is far away, it could have a shot at reaching it, but if the target is rather close, it could just dive back down on top of it. But again, I'm no missile programmer. I just assume the real AIM-54 engineers to be much smarter than I am in this case! 

Edited November 4, 2022 by Kageseigi

[lunaticfringe]

(Taking a flier)

Edited November 5, 2022 by lunaticfringe

[Hornet 64]

hello i'm new on dcs ,but how do you block a jammer in PDSTT ?

[Comstedt86]

1 hour ago, Hornet 64 said:

hello i'm new on dcs ,but how do you block a jammer in PDSTT ?

Welcome.

 

What exactly do you mean with block?

 

[IronMike]

2 hours ago, Hornet 64 said:

hello i'm new on dcs ,but how do you block a jammer in PDSTT ?

if you mean lock, simply hook the strobe and transition to PDSTT like with a normal target.

[Fliegerkalle]

5 hours ago, IronMike said:

if you mean lock, simply hook the strobe and transition to PDSTT like with a normal target.

Can this also be done in SP with jester ? What’s there the procedure? 

[IronMike]

4 minutes ago, Fliegerkalle said:

Can this also be done in SP with jester ? What’s there the procedure? 

In the BVR menu in the STT section jamming targets will be listed. Simply select one and tell him to lock it.

[garrya]

On 10/27/2022 at 9:04 AM, FWind said:

Wow that very interesting how far the AWG-9 can burn through jamming. Might i know what is the source?

[garrya]

On 10/27/2022 at 4:43 AM, Naquaii said:

Atm we've decided not to prioritise modelling ADR as it's one of those systems that would be a lot of work to implement while not really adding much as it was quite limited and hard to use.

ADR stand for altitude difference ranging right? I have always confused about how it work. Apparently, it allowed range measurement in JAT mode, and thus allow missile to be lofted in HoJ mode. Therefore allow stuff like this: 

AWG-9 clearly couldn’t burn through a noise jammer at such distance

[Naquaii]

On 2/14/2024 at 5:14 PM, garrya said:

ADR stand for altitude difference ranging right? I have always confused about how it work. Apparently, it allowed range measurement in JAT mode, and thus allow missile to be lofted in HoJ mode. Therefore allow stuff like this: 

AWG-9 clearly couldn’t burn through a noise jammer at such distance

We can't really tell exactly how the AIM-54 was launched simply from this and how the AWG-9 was affected. There's not really any information about this in this document, just that it could launch at it and hit it.

The ADR used angle to track and speed and altitude to estimate range, but was hard to use as you'd either need good previous measurements from the radar or good guesses from the RIO and would become increasingly inaccurate as soon as the target manuevers. You also need quite a bit of altitude difference for it to work at all.

And just to be clear, this is currently not modelled in DCS.

Edited February 15 by Naquaii

[garrya]

11 hours ago, Naquaii said:

The ADR used angle to track and speed and altitude to estimate range, but was hard to use as you'd either need good previous measurements from the radar or good guesses from the RIO and would become increasingly inaccurate as soon as the target manuevers. You also need quite a bit of altitude difference for it to work at all.

And just to be clear, this is currently not modelled in DCS.

 

So I can understand that you can get target angular direction in JAT mode for ADR estimation. But how do you get target speed and altitude though?. Wouldn’t noise jammer deny range and velocity information? Or basically the Rio just make a guess? I mean how does he even guess the altitude when the only available data is the angle?

. It also kinda strange, I can’t find any document talking about ADR, is it same as kinematic ranging on F-15?
 

Edited February 16 by garrya

[Naquaii]

10 hours ago, garrya said:

So I can understand that you can get target angular direction in JAT mode for ADR estimation. But how do you get target speed and altitude though?. Wouldn’t noise jammer deny range and velocity information? Or basically the Rio just make a guess? I mean how does he even guess the altitude when the only available data is the angle?

. It also kinda strange, I can’t find any document talking about ADR, is it same as kinematic ranging on F-15?
 

 

It's purely trigonometry, the only thing the radar knows is the angle to target so, like I said, you need to have either a previous track which gave you altitude and speed or the RIO needs to guess.

[garrya]

1 hour ago, Naquaii said:

It's purely trigonometry, the only thing the radar knows is the angle to target so, like I said, you need to have either a previous track which gave you altitude and speed or the RIO needs to guess.

Thanks alot, how did you learn about ADR?, was a pilot talking about it or did it come from manual?

[Naquaii]

On 2/16/2024 at 2:26 PM, garrya said:

Thanks alot, how did you learn about ADR?, was a pilot talking about it or did it come from manual?

We have extensive documentation gathered while researching the aircraft. Stuff like maintenance manuals etc that while unclass isn't available on the net.

[garrya]

17 hours ago, Naquaii said:

We have extensive documentation gathered while researching the aircraft. Stuff like maintenance manuals etc that while unclass isn't available on the net.

Is it in either NAVAIR 01-F-14AAD-1 or NAVAIR 01-F-14A-1 or NAVAIR 01-F-14AAP-1.1 ?

I acquire several F-14 manual but couldn't find any information about the ADR

[Naquaii]

7 hours ago, garrya said:

Is it in either NAVAIR 01-F-14AAD-1 or NAVAIR 01-F-14A-1 or NAVAIR 01-F-14AAP-1.1 ?

I acquire several F-14 manual but couldn't find any information about the ADR

No, those does not contain the parts related to the weapon systems. Like I said we've had to piece this stuff together from other sources.