HSI showing wrong waypoint locations/distance

[Nealius]

Dedicated server with Jester, cold start on the carrier with stored alignment checked in the mission. After WYPT01, all waypoints and special points are way off on the HSI, but work fine with LANTIRN. Flight time until issue noticed ~30minutes. In 2.7 I never experienced any INS issues with Jester+cold start carrier+stored alignment.

Jester selecting IP for navigation. HSI shows IP at 205 for 25nm. Jester slaved to IP with LANTIRN, actual IP is 245 for 8.7nm.

CCIP is also way off but that may be due to high winds in the mission. Will need to check with lower wind speeds.

 

 

[draconus]

G? Alignment uninterrupted? What if you turn to IP just after take off?

[Nealius]

Alignment should be uninterrupted as I'm on the deck with parking brake set, however when I'm hooked up to the ground crew (rearming/ground power/air, etc.) I constantly get "hey what are you doing" despite not moving at all. Deck jumping bug back, perhaps? I'll try a ramp hot start and see what happens.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Nealius

[Nealius]

Yes, definitely something wrong with cold start on the carrier. Hot ramp start and INS/HSI pointers are solid. 

[IronMike]

We just verified with multiple testers. No issues at all. This seems like your INS is borked for some reason, as the Lantirn uses its own GPS, hence Lantirn is fine, while HSD is off.

We'll check with carrier start cold start, too.

[The_Tau]

IDK i would check winds again. 90 kt winds?

I had similar thing multiple times, I linked it with "jumping" on turning CV, but it seem ED fixed that "jumping" last patch. That F14 wind drift however.... Like idk why it goes FUBAR

I fixed the system in flight by putting INS to IMU mode and entering manual wind + position update 

Edited November 13, 2022 by The_Tau

[Nealius]

Winds well below 90kts. 20~25kts at the highest altitude block, 11kts at surface. The "hey what are you doing" interruptions are only occuring on dedicated server, never when I fly offline. I haven't cross-checked offline vs. online, but online with dedicated server the INS gets borked on cold start every single time, with hot start working fine.

[The_Tau]

1 hour ago, Nealius said:

Winds well below 90kts. 20~25kts at the highest altitude block, 11kts at surface. The "hey what are you doing" interruptions are only occuring on dedicated server, never when I fly offline. I haven't cross-checked offline vs. online, but online with dedicated server the INS gets borked on cold start every single time, with hot start working fine.

I am asking as from your picture...

[IronMike]

We checked all carrier cold starts, with and without ASH, with and without Jester, all works fine.

Maybe something is off with the mission you are using, not sure, but our testers cannot reproduce your issue on latest OB.

[Nealius]

On 11/13/2022 at 11:47 PM, The_Tau said:

I am asking as from your picture...

Wind settings are as follows: 

26,000ft - 20kts from 276

6,600ft - 15kts from 350

1,600ft - 23kts from 350 (locked by mission editor)

33ft - 11kts from 350

Either the wind in the HSI is wrong, or there is something screwy with the DCS weather system.

@IronMike I'll make a track when I have time. I haven't been able to use current tracks due to using VAICOM, which bypasses the comms menu for ground power/air supply and thus the aircraft never actually starts in the replay track.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Nealius

[draconus]

3 hours ago, Nealius said:

Either the wind in the HSI is wrong, or there is something screwy with the DCS weather system.

...or it's one of the symptoms of broken INS.

[IronMike]

5 hours ago, Nealius said:

Wind settings are as follows: 

26,000ft - 20kts from 276

6,600ft - 15kts from 350

1,600ft - 23kts from 350 (locked by mission editor)

33ft - 11kts from 350

Either the wind in the HSI is wrong, or there is something screwy with the DCS weather system.

@IronMike I'll make a track when I have time. I haven't been able to use current tracks due to using VAICOM, which bypasses the comms menu for ground power/air supply and thus the aircraft never actually starts in the replay track.

 

If the mission is pre 2.8 try resaving it. Sometimes full .x version jumps can cause issues.

[Nealius]

3 hours ago, draconus said:

..or it's one of the symptoms of broken INS.

With only 2Gs on the clock the question is how would the INS consistently break from a cold start but never from a hot start.

59 minutes ago, IronMike said:

If the mission is pre 2.8 try resaving it. Sometimes full .x version jumps can cause issues.

This one was made post 2.8.

[draconus]

4 minutes ago, Nealius said:

With only 2Gs on the clock the question is how would the INS consistently break from a cold start but never from a hot start.

That would indicate that system detects some movement making INS alignment incorrect - and another symptom confirming that is ground crew calling you out.

[Nealius]

That's what I'm starting to think as well, though the aircraft is not moving. The carrier is turning when this happens, however. I'm trying to reproduce the timing of it at the moment.

[IronMike]

1 hour ago, Nealius said:

That's what I'm starting to think as well, though the aircraft is not moving. The carrier is turning when this happens, however. I'm trying to reproduce the timing of it at the moment.

Then this is your issue I would say: the carrier turning. Until we implement wheel chocks (at least functionally), the best way to avoid it, is to have the carrier turn after alignment is complete.

[Nealius]

Reproduced: Track file

1. Launch, navigate waypoint 2 (El Ain airport), note wind is correct for the values set in the mission editor, after feet dry note wind has now suddenly increased from 20kts to 30kts

2. Waypoint 2 is on El Ain Airport as expected, note wind has steadily increased from the 20kts it should be to around 50kts

3. Navigate IP, note the wind readout is still steadily increasing up from 50kts, IP location has shifted due South a bit

4. Arrive at IP with wind showing close to 70kts now

4. Roll in on target range at IP, bombs consistently fall significantly due South no matter what direction the attack run is made, HSI now says 85kts

It's like the INS starts off fine, then as I go feet dry the HSI wind readout steadily increases, with the waypoints simultaneously drifting due south at the same rate.

1 hour ago, IronMike said:

Then this is your issue I would say: the carrier turning.

This wasn't an issue in 2.7, and causes problems when running the airboss script since the carrier makes two turns in the 10 minutes prior to the programmed recovery window.

[IronMike]

2 hours ago, Nealius said:

This wasn't an issue in 2.7, and causes problems when running the airboss script since the carrier makes two turns in the 10 minutes prior to the programmed recovery window.

It seems to be an issue now though. We didn't change anything, but things changed in 2.8 which introduced the jittering on carrier first, which then got fixed (iirc), and may have introduced new issues, maybe on carrier side, maybe on airboss script side (which is a 3rd party application we do not support). Likely the cause is going to be that Jester switches to INS before the carrier has completed the turn. 

There's not much we can do about it. You'll either have to adjust the carrier turn, wait with start up, manually perform a handset alignment, or see what may have changed with carriers on DCS side and address ED please.

 

[The_Tau]

This is not new.  I had that wind drift couple times now over several patches but I think that @IronMike is right though about Turning CV and Jester switching INS. 

 

It only really happen on our squadron  server with script that makes ship auto turn towards wind

[IronMike]

2 hours ago, The_Tau said:

This is not new.  I had that wind drift couple times now over several patches but I think that @IronMike is right though about Turning CV and Jester switching INS. 

 

It only really happen on our squadron  server with script that makes ship auto turn towards wind

There is another workaround that comes to my mind. Basically release the parking brake before he switches to INS, which interrupts the alignment, or pauses it. but then again, the sliding during turn may be worse. Another solution is to simply hop to the backpit and wait till the turn is complete and then switch to front seat again.

[Nealius]

What are the cues for Jester's switch to INS? Or is it just release parking brake during engine start, then wait for carrier to finish turning, and reengage the brake? I'd like to try that workaround. I'd hate to nix the immersion Airboss gives and I'd also hate to have to add 20 minutes to my already limited fly time.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Nealius

[IronMike]

5 hours ago, Nealius said:

What are the cues for Jester's switch to INS? Or is it just release parking brake during engine start, then wait for carrier to finish turning, and reengage the brake? I'd like to try that workaround. I'd hate to nix the immersion Airboss gives and I'd also hate to have to add 20 minutes to my already limited fly time.

 

if you switch the HSD to TID, you can follow along the alignment. when the reticle on top turns into a diamond, it is in the fine alignment phase, basically second half ish of the scale on top. In AHS this will go super fast, because it does the coarse alignment, and then it goes super fast for the rest, in a normal CAINS alignment this will take a few minutes. At the end, he will then somewhat in a timely manner switch to INS. He may enter waypoint coords first, but the best is to release the parking brake while the alignment reticle is still wandering along the alignment scale. In AHS, prolly when still in coarse. Which gives you about 2 min to do that from engine start complete, when he starts alignining.

But honestly the best is prolly to just hop into the backseat when he starts aligning, enjoy the view a bit, and when the carrier is done turning, hop back up front again.

Edited November 16, 2022 by IronMike

[Nealius]

Hopping in the back is possible in multiplayer now, right? I remember it was implemented, then I remember there being associated bugs, and lost track of its functionality since then.

[The_Tau]

7 hours ago, Nealius said:

Hopping in the back is possible in multiplayer now, right? I remember it was implemented, then I remember there being associated bugs, and lost track of its functionality since then.

hoping back to RIO seat in multiplayer works very well. I do it quite often