DCS SAM Threat Guide Kneeboard

[Whiskey11]

Howdy Folks, just finished uploading a new version of my SAM Threat Guide for DCS to the User Files and thought I should share it with you all.  This is a kneeboard with all the information you could need to successfully SEAD/DEAD any SAM site.  It includes the obvious stuff like names, ranges, altitudes, and HARM codes.  More importantly, it includes pictures of the important bits of the SAM site, including the track radar and which one you should prioritize.  There is also a small section which shows the common layout of a SAM site based upon their real world layouts.

Example Kneeboard Card:

 

DOWNLOAD LINK:
https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3331424/

=====================================
INSTALL
=====================================
Install into your desired aircraft's kneeboard.  Generally your kneeboards are in C:\"Your User Name"\Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\Kneeboard\"Aircraft Type".

If the folder doesn't exist, create it!  Example:  C:\Whiskey11\Saved Games\DCS.openbeta\Kneeboard\F-16C_50 for the F-16C kneeboard location.

Enjoy!

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Known Issues & Roadmap
=====================================

Version 2.1's TPOD pictures got distorted somehow.  Hope to address this at a later date. Still need to get around to doing the Avenger/VADS/Linebacker and other BLUFOR SHORAD... I'll probably end up throwing the MANPADS into a single page, but haven't decided yet.

=====================================
Credits
=====================================
Information about range, and altitude for the various SAM's came from four sources.  Hoggit's Threat Database (mostly stuff pulled from in game files), the Air Goon's website, and directly from the DCS LUA Datamine files and the High Digit SAM Mod LUA Files.  Unless ED comes outright and gives us these numbers, this is "as good as it gets" for numbers in game.  The amount of testing required to confirm these numbers is out of my ability, time wise.

=====================================
Version History
=====================================
V1.0 - 18 October 2022 
    -Basic SAM Threat Information Kneeboard.  Missing Rapier SAM system, Roland, and all MANPADS.  Also missing the SPAA which don't have missiles.

V2.0 - 14 December 2022 
    -Added High Digit SAM Mod (HDSM) SAMs (S-300PS, S-300PMU, S-300PMU-1, S-300PMU-2, S-300V, S-300VM, and 9K317 Buk-M1-2) to guide
        -All HDSM SAMs will have "HDSM" in the upper left corner of the page 
        -SA-23 Gladiator/Giant's Grill Screen Track Radar does NOT have a HARM Code due to DCS Limitations (please help pester ED about this!)
        -All HARM Codes and RWR symbology has been checked in F-16C and are accurate.  SA-10 and SA-20 variants show up on HTS Pod.
    -Added Countermeasure Type
    -Added Common Site Layout
    -Added Rapier System
    -Added MIM-115 Roland ADS
    -Added track and search radar RWR codes
    -Added Russian Names to the NATO reporting names.  NATO names are on the left, Russian names on the right.
V2.1 - 16 June 2023
    -Added NATO Threat Table Numbers
    -Added SA-17 Point Defense Message
    -Fixed SAM Ranges for DCS Core SAMs from the LUA Datamine
    -Fixed Certain SAM layouts (SA-5, HAWK, SA-11, and SA-17)
    -Fixed SA-17 Radar Name (Changed from Fire Dome to Chair Back)

 

Feedback always appreciated!

Edited June 17, 2023 by Whiskey11

[simo-dj]

thanks @Whiskey11

Just downloaded!

Have a Merry Christmas!

[Whiskey11]

15 minutes ago, simo-dj said:

thanks @Whiskey11

Just downloaded!

Have a Merry Christmas!

No problem!  You too!  Let me know if you have any suggestions for future updates! Have a couple already from comments over on the User File side.

[simo-dj]

39 minuti fa, Whiskey11 ha scritto:

No problem!  You too!  Let me know if you have any suggestions for future updates! Have a couple already from comments over on the User File side.

Thanks again. Maybe include pdf files also, rather than only png...

I love to print all these docs and infos and pdf is more easy to print. But, as said, i think your work is very good and take this suggestion as one coming from a choosy person

I abuse of your kindness. Do you have, or do you know where to find a list of all ordnance for all dcs platforms? I mean, often i am not sure about what maverick, or free fall bombs choose for a given mission...

Anyway, thanks again for your work!!!

[Whiskey11]

2 minutes ago, simo-dj said:

Thanks again. Maybe include pdf files also, rather than only png...

I love to print all these docs and infos and pdf is more easy to print. But, as said, i think your work is very good and take this suggestion as one coming from a choosy person

I abuse of your kindness. Do you have, or do you know where to find a list of all ordnance for all dcs platforms? I mean, often i am not sure about what maverick, or free fall bombs choose for a given mission...

Anyway, thanks again for your work!!!

I'll look into including a PDF in the future.  Will have to do some research into how first, but it shouldn't be too hard.  Do you want each one individually as a PDF or all of them in one as a PDF?

As for Ordnance for aircraft in DCS, the largest list of DCS ordnance I've ever seen is on Air Goons:  https://www.airgoons.com/w/DCS_Reference/Stores_List

A lot of people use HARMs for SEAD in the Viper, or CBU-105's and GBU-38's for DEAD to take out the site and track radars.  Pretty much any air to ground weapon can be made to work for taking out SAM sites.  Some are significantly better than others.  My go to weapon of choice is the CBU-105.  It's GPS guided, has decent glide capability, and takes out a large chunk, if not all, of most SAM sites.  The GBU-38 is a little more precise in that it can only effectively engage one part of the site at a time (hopefully the track radar first! :P).

[simo-dj]

17 minuti fa, Whiskey11 ha scritto:

I'll look into including a PDF in the future.  Will have to do some research into how first, but it shouldn't be too hard.  Do you want each one individually as a PDF or all of them in one as a PDF?

 

I think one pdf for all would be perfect (for me) but you don't have to waste your time. Doing a pdf was a simple suggestion. Pls continue your superb work as it's easier and less time wasting for you! For me printing each png or only pdf file it's quite the same.

Thanks a lot!

[John Galt]

Thank you, Whiskey 11, very helpful.

Merry Christmas

[=617= Evil]

This is phenomenal work, my friend. Thank you so much! 

[Whiskey11]

20 hours ago, John Galt said:

Thank you, Whiskey 11, very helpful.

Merry Christmas

No Problem!  You too!

18 hours ago, =617= Evil said:

This is phenomenal work, my friend. Thank you so much! 

No Problem!

If you guys have comments on how to improve let me know!

Some suggestions from here and userfiles which I'll try and implement for next "release:"
-PDF of kneeboards
-ZIP file instead of RAR file
-Country of Origin/Faction
-SA-21 and SA-22 Cards (From S-300 Pack, not to be confused with HDSM, I suppose! :P)

[Deano87]

This looks great!

Would it be possible to have a “Stock” version for people who fly without HDSM or similar. So just the cards that are actually applicable to the systems actually installed in the base sim. I think it would be helpful for people learning, to not be confused by extraneous, non applicable data.

 

Just a thought. 

[Jirahfighter]

Why is this not working for me? I created a folder in the path indicated? I mainly fly the A10C II. I’m not sure what the proper aircraft designator is for the kneeboard so it could be that? I’ve tried a few different options…any ideas?

Cheers

[Whiskey11]

4 hours ago, Deano87 said:

This looks great!

Would it be possible to have a “Stock” version for people who fly without HDSM or similar. So just the cards that are actually applicable to the systems actually installed in the base sim. I think it would be helpful for people learning, to not be confused by extraneous, non applicable data.

 

Just a thought. 

I gave some thought to that and decided to mark the HDSM kneeboards with HDSM in the upper left hand corner.  It'd be easy enough to go through and delete the HDSM SAMs from the folder as a stop gap.

2 hours ago, Jirahfighter said:

Why is this not working for me? I created a folder in the path indicated? I mainly fly the A10C II. I’m not sure what the proper aircraft designator is for the kneeboard so it could be that? I’ve tried a few different options…any ideas?

Cheers

The correct folder should be "A-10C_2" without the quotes. Check the folder name first. It should also be the Save Games Kneeboard folder.

[Jirahfighter]

Thanks mate I’ll give that a try 

[DukeAngus]

have you considered adding the info/ table info for the HAD harm system or  the harm targeting systems tables  numbers to the kneeboards?

Edited December 19, 2022 by DukeAngus

[Whiskey11]

On 12/19/2022 at 12:53 PM, DukeAngus said:

have you considered adding the info/ table info for the HAD harm system or  the harm targeting systems tables  numbers to the kneeboards?

 

I hadn't, but I'll look into adding it!

[VKing]

One comment on the NASAMS:

It's labeled as both a search and track radar, but the MPQ-64 never tracks (the F-16 RWR doesn't even show it unless the show search radars button is pressed), and as such it will also never give a launch warning.

[=617= Evil]

5 hours ago, VKing said:

One comment on the NASAMS:

It's labeled as both a search and track radar, but the MPQ-64 never tracks (the F-16 RWR doesn't even show it unless the show search radars button is pressed), and as such it will also never give a launch warning.

But can the NASAM engage without the search radar? 

[VKing]

23 hours ago, =617= Evil said:

But can the NASAM engage without the search radar? 

They can't in DCS.

In reality? Interesting question. The missiles are just regular AMRAAMs fired from regular LAU-129 launch rails, so I don't know why they couldn't be fired mad dog-style.

[Whiskey11]

On 1/8/2023 at 6:19 AM, VKing said:

One comment on the NASAMS:

It's labeled as both a search and track radar, but the MPQ-64 never tracks (the F-16 RWR doesn't even show it unless the show search radars button is pressed), and as such it will also never give a launch warning.

It is, however, a track radar.  It provides track file information for ground based TWS shots using the AIM-120 and is used for target cueing when AIM-9's are used.  You wont get a track warning because it operates exactly like an aircraft radar in TWS. At least, that is how it acts in DCS World.  While the range of the system is very low as we have it, you can absolutely see mid course guidance updates, like in TWS, before the missile goes active at ~10nmi.  It's about a 2-4 mile window to see the behavior, but it is definitely there.

[VKing]

5 hours ago, Whiskey11 said:

It is, however, a track radar.  It provides track file information for ground based TWS shots using the AIM-120 and is used for target cueing when AIM-9's are used.  You wont get a track warning because it operates exactly like an aircraft radar in TWS. At least, that is how it acts in DCS World.  While the range of the system is very low as we have it, you can absolutely see mid course guidance updates, like in TWS, before the missile goes active at ~10nmi.  It's about a 2-4 mile window to see the behavior, but it is definitely there.

I agree. I guess my point was, there should be a "No Launch Warning" notification for the NASAMS system, and perhaps a note that the F-16 won't even see it by default.

Although, it might be a special case since it's the only system that uses active missiles, so unlike the others with no launch warning, there is *some* warning before you die.

[Whiskey11]

9 hours ago, VKing said:

I agree. I guess my point was, there should be a "No Launch Warning" notification for the NASAMS system, and perhaps a note that the F-16 won't even see it by default.

Although, it might be a special case since it's the only system that uses active missiles, so unlike the others with no launch warning, there is *some* warning before you die.

I'll be adding some additional details in the future. Looking at the week of 21 January for an update since I took the week off from work. 

 

As far as doing it for ALL SAMs in DCS, it'll be challenging because certain SAMs don't behave like they do IRL.  Patriot. PAC 1 is a TVM system IRL (like TWS but SARH to impact vs ARH) while in game it is basically SARH.  S-300, depending on variant is either SARH, TVM, or ARH/TWS... etc.  I'd love for DCS to better represent SAM threats... for people like me who obsess over SEAD/DEAD, I've grown very accustom to the quirks of our current SAMs to where I'm nearly bored of the mission set because it is so easy!!! 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Whiskey11

[Moonshine]

1 minute ago, Whiskey11 said:

As far as doing it for ALL SAMs in DCS, it'll be challenging because certain SAMs don't behave like they do IRL.  Patriot. PAC 1 is a TVM system IRL (like TWS but SARH to impact vs ARH) while in game it is basically SARH.  S-300, depending on variant is either SARH, TVM, or ARH/TWS... etc.  I'd love for DCS to better represent SAM threats... for people like me who obsess over SEAD/DEAD, I've grown very accustom to the quirks of our current SAMs to where I'm nearly bored of the mission set because it is so easy!!! 

this.

dcs really needs an actual IADS that adds some dynamic to it. (not the skynet one, which is cool but still limited by the core SAM site quirks...)

[Whiskey11]

V2.1 is out!  You can download it from the ED User Files here:  

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3331424/

 

Updates in V2.1:
V2.1 - 16 June 2023
    -Added NATO Threat Table Numbers
    -Added SA-17 Point Defense Message
    -Fixed SAM Ranges for DCS Core SAMs from the LUA Datamine
    -Fixed Certain SAM layouts (SA-5, HAWK, SA-11, and SA-17)
    -Fixed SA-17 Radar Name (Changed from Fire Dome to Chair Back)

Edited June 17, 2023 by Whiskey11

[PharaohSteve]

Thanks for this!

[Whiskey11]

On 7/25/2023 at 5:28 PM, PharaohSteve said:

Thanks for this!

No problem!