Pico 4: how to set it up for DCS?

[Johnny Dioxin]

1 hour ago, rcalfa said:

Other thing I notice is that sometimes when I look down, there is something activate to auto-center the view where I am looking, it is anoying, do you know if I can turn this off and where?

 

thank you in advance, I am finding very good advices and tips here.

At last someone else with this issue - I've had it for months, over two completely different PCs, but only with Pico 4 (I also use Quest 2 occasionally, and Index, but obviously not wirelessly) and through Virtual Desktop - it's a real PITA and has sometimes caused me to use Index instead of Pico in DCS.

When I posted here and elsewhere about it and uploaded videos, no-one had any answer. When I went on VD Discord I had no luck - the guy who was "helping" was either being deliberately obstinate or didn't know the app very well and was no help at all and I gave up there. Shame you can no longer directly email Guy (afaik) as he has been very helpful in years past.

 

This is definitely a VD thing, as it doesn't happen in other cases and I've had it happen in all flight sims - but not in other VR games like NMS etc and DCS is the worst of the lot.

 

I can upload a video again if no-one has seen it, or if you would like one to use for reference in your own search for a solution.

Edited January 13 by Johnny Dioxin

[MIghtymoo]

Just a small observation. I tried the H.264 codec, because someone recommended this for better performance.

Looks good and session was very smooth for me.

[rcalfa]

hace 5 horas, Johnny Dioxin dijo:

Okay I made a quick edit of a couple of videos of the issue - this has DCS and Elite:

 

 

Thank you, exactly this. This mad circle… Hehe.

It do not happen always, in fact, Ithought I turn it off and somehow turn it on…

I think is VD thing as you said, and also, think I saw an option for turning it off but at this time I did not know The meaning and I cant find find it again, or it was a dream hehe

 

hope someone can help 

[mrsylvestre]

On 1/11/2024 at 10:26 AM, MIghtymoo said:

I am not sure that fixed foveated rendering or quadview (non-eye tracked) gives a significant performance boost. 

My tests gave minimal difference in fps.

Quadview rendering is very demanding on the CPU, so watch your CPU-frame times (nearly doubled in my tests compared to turned off).

 

On 1/11/2024 at 10:57 AM, Qcumber said:

It depends on your hardware. With a 4090 and 13900k I don't think you will see much difference. Download the QVFR log to see what indicated saving you are making. With a 4070 and 5800x3d I see a big improvement in FPS.

+1 for QVFR benefits that depend on your hardware.

On a 6950XT / 5800x3d system, the performance gain is significant. For instance, my DCS graphics settings are tuned (down) so that I can run the F-16 over Golan Heights instant action mission at 72 fps native (no retroprojection) on the Pico 4, with QVFR. This is with VD on Ultra (2736x2736 per eye). If I disable QVFR, everything else being unchanged, that system cannot reach 72 fps anymore (stutter fest). I guess that it is because in general with DCS VR my GPU is bottlenecking long before the CPU is, so offsetting some of the load from the GPU to the CPU with QVFR results in an overall performance increase. OTOH, with a 4090 monster that can cope with resolutions of 4000x4000+ per eye and flying the Apache over Paris, shifting some of the load to the CPU might be counterproductive. This could especially be the case in MP which is notorious for hammering the CPU. I would also assume that the extra load on the CPU from QVFR might increase with resolution.

Edited January 16 by mrsylvestre
Typos, and one GPU that should have been CPU (confusion) - Key message unchanged

[rcalfa]

En 13/1/2024 a las 12:04, Johnny Dioxin dijo:

Okay I made a quick edit of a couple of videos of the issue - this has DCS and Elite:

 

 

Have you tried getting in touch with Pico Support? Im thinking on doing so

[RealDCSpilot]

@rcalfa @Johnny Dioxin Check in LAB settings if hand tracking is enabled and disable it.

Edited January 16 by RealDCSpilot

[Johnny Dioxin]

22 hours ago, rcalfa said:

Have you tried getting in touch with Pico Support? Im thinking on doing so

I did think about it - but on past experience of dealing with Chinese support I am very reluctant. They are usually very keen, but their English is normally dire and they struggle to understand. Maybe they have someone who speaks the lingo...

8 hours ago, RealDCSpilot said:

@rcalfa @Johnny Dioxin Check in LAB settings if hand tracking is enabled and disable it.

 

I'll do that - I haven't enabled it myself, but will check anyway.

Edited January 16 by Johnny Dioxin

[rcalfa]

En 16/1/2024 a las 11:06, RealDCSpilot dijo:

@rcalfa @Johnny Dioxin Check in LAB settings if hand tracking is enabled and disable it.

 

It works! Thx!

En 16/1/2024 a las 19:34, Johnny Dioxin dijo:

I did think about it - but on past experience of dealing with Chinese support I am very reluctant. They are usually very keen, but their English is normally dire and they struggle to understand. Maybe they have someone who speaks the lingo...

I'll do that - I haven't enabled it myself, but will check anyway.

 

@Johnny Dioxin It worked for me, lets hope you also solve it men.

[Johnny Dioxin]

Mine was enabled also - be able to check later

In the meantime, is anyone else finding their framerate window is cut off in 2.9 OB - it's been like this for quite a while now:

[MIghtymoo]

1 hour ago, Johnny Dioxin said:

Mine was enabled also - be able to check later

In the meantime, is anyone else finding their framerate window is cut off in 2.9 OB - it's been like this for quite a while now:

You need to move the box back closer to the center. Do this by pushing ESC and adjust with mouse when paused. You can’t move it when flying.

Edited January 18 by MIghtymoo

[Johnny Dioxin]

Didn't know that - thanks.

 

[zaelu]

On 1/13/2024 at 10:29 AM, rcalfa said:

thank you in advance, I am finding very good advices and tips here.

 I just quoted your message to have something to reply regarding your issues and attempts.

So.

1. Your 3060 is challenging to have ~90FPS and preserve something about DCS visuals in VR. I had 3060 and now I have 4080 and I can tell you is just another mediocre but super expensive garbage. But... it does 40FPS with everything on max and Godlike resolution. Maybe a 4090 is better a little but most probably a 6060ti would be a low end but good performer in 4 years... I tell you this so you have a correct mind set all things considered.
2. Anything you test with textures resolutions set under Ultra or whatever maximum is is useless. You will test how much the taste of water changes for the rain drops when is windy. irrelevant. Once you lowered that resolution the graphics become so bad no matter what headset you have, no matter you put resolution on Potato or Godlike no matter you play VR or 2D in 4K or HD - all is gone and irrelevant! That setting is for people that couldn't care less about textures and could actually enjoy DCS World if it looked like "Beat Saber" or "Superhot". I exaggerate a little of course in order to drive my point home. But not much.
3. On (still) using XR Tools in 2024 with VDXR. Opinions can differ but... in my humble opinion is a useless software that can give true placebo results. It's like the people that go in Game and modify pixel density to 0.9 then go to Steam VR (if they use it) and set the resolution super sampling to 1.13 for DCS but 98% for general then go to Virtual Desktop and set resolution to Potato and then set upscaling AI bs to maximum from 540p to 8K then set bitrate to 2kb/s and then say: OMG I have the perfectly balanced settings I cannot believe how great I am lets make a monetized youtube video about my greatness. Utter useless rubbish. The reprojection that happens for VR is complicated enough and most of these people don't understand how it works anyway. They don't know for example that pixel density, resolution in Virtual Desktop and super sampling in SteamVR do the same thing and maybe they should use just one that is better positioned in the pipeline... Virtual Desktop being the best here.
Choose one resolution there and work for it in the rest of the settings so you achieve decency with a 3060.
How ever!!
One thing that many fail to do is to see the extremes properly. First you need to see the extremes!!! So you know what is what.
First set everything to low.... including those pesky textures. put resolution on potato Lower the bitrate if necessary in VD... Fire up a DCS simple mission - Just you and the environment nothing more... not a "moving tree!" Se you FPS, note it down.... notice the painful picture quality state but know it's to be expected.
Second... Crank everything up. Everything! Ballz to the wall... Godlike too! But don't touch Pixel Density or any other resolution control other than VD Godlike. Fire up same mission... make sure you are on ground and you have some anti-vomit pills in case low FPS makes you sick  . See the difference.  Especially look for graphic quality. Especially standing still! That is your goal. It's max quality possible and you need to know it so you know what you sacrifice while tunning.

Notes.
Don't use Upscaling when doing the min-max tests. They mess up the results. After you have seen the extremes you can play with them but know they mess up the quality badly. Also Know that Anialiasing like TAA and DLAA interfere with quality. Best for now is DLAA producing best quality with acceptable loss in clarity. If you want to see this put all to max set AA to OFF and see clarity then turn AA on with different tech and notice the bluriness and nvidia bs.

Good luck!

Edited January 20 by zaelu

[Alkaline]

Hey guys, I need some help please.

PICO 4
AMD Ryzen 7 5700X3D
RX 6700 XT 12GB VRAM
64GB RAM

ASUS WiFi 6 router on 5GHz band, 1200mbps local speed (The speed that bitrate needs)
I use HEVC codec at around 130 mbps. For my standards, i get good quality, a bit low fps at times (30-40), mostly around 55 tho at 72 hz. Graphics in DCS is high, Pixel density 1.2. High settings in VD (U know, the list where top is god mode). I notice latency tho when i move my mouse, its a few milliseconds behind. I only use the mouse during cold starts tho.

Is the latency caused by too high bitrate? Will decreasing from 130 mbps cause bitrate artifacts? Can I get some tips regarding the bitrate and codec?

[zaelu]

  

On 2/26/2024 at 12:54 AM, Alkaline said:

Hey guys [...]

Why use VD quality streaming setting (high) and ingame pixel density (1.2)???? You don't know they control same thing or is a mojo thing? Switch to Godlike or leave it on High. And leave pixel density on 1.0. Both control supersampling and best way is to leave VD control this completely.
Do you use "boost game priority - ON" in VD Streamer settings?
Does AMD have something similar with nvidia low latency settings in driver? maybe you should try them On.

Edited February 29 by zaelu

[RealDCSpilot]

VD quality setting sets the main resolution per eye. DCS's PD setting can be used as a multiplicator for that main resolution for fine tuning.
As an example, on my end i use "godlike" (3120x3120) and PD of 1.2 to push the super sampling resolution to 3744x3744. Then DLSS takes this resolution and puts it down to 2496x2496 to rescale it back to 3744x3744. Sharpening on 1.0 and it looks pretty crisp, absolutely zero aliasing.

Edited March 1 by RealDCSpilot

[zaelu]

10 hours ago, RealDCSpilot said:

VD quality setting sets the main resolution per eye. DCS's PD setting can be used as a multiplicator for that main resolution for fine tuning.
As an example, on my end i use "godlike" (3120x3120) and PD of 1.2 to push the super sampling resolution to 3744x3744. Then DLSS takes this resolution and puts it down to 2496x2496 to rescale it back to 3744x3744. Sharpening on 1.0 and it looks pretty crisp, absolutely zero aliasing.

 

For me that's how I would sum up a placebo effect.  

[RealDCSpilot]

9 hours ago, zaelu said:

placebo effect

Dream on little man...

Edited March 2 by RealDCSpilot

[RealDCSpilot]

On 1/20/2024 at 2:54 PM, zaelu said:

now I have 4080 and I can tell you is just another mediocre but super expensive garbage. But... it does 40FPS with everything on max and Godlike resolution. Maybe a 4090 is better a little but most probably a 6060ti would be a low end but good performer in 4 years... I tell you this so you have a correct mind set all things considered.

Didn't see this post until now... I don't know what you are doing there, but only 40fps with a 4080 means that something isn't right on your machine. You may have overtinkered with stuff you don't know much about or simply misconfigured Windows or whatever. In December you should have got your fps close to this:

and after the latest patch it should even improve close to this:

 

[Johnny Dioxin]

Would be nice to have Pico 4 pinned as a thread like the other headsets - guess that's cos Americans can't get it (legally).

 

Anyway - I bought one of these kits a few days ago and am very happy with it. It is a bit expensive, but as there are few alternatives for Pico 4, I took the hit and have to say I don't regret it at all.

Very comfy - at first it was very snug, but softened within the first session to be just fine. Each battery gives you about an hour's extra time - so you get about 4 hours in one go, which is fine. I was able to switch batteries easily without removing the headset in a few seconds. You can always use the excellent pass-through in any case.

So if you don't mind the price, I would recommend this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BP68GP29?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

 

edit: looks like I got the last one in the UK!!

Edited March 11 by Johnny Dioxin

[Johnny Dioxin]

On 3/3/2024 at 3:25 PM, RealDCSpilot said:

Didn't see this post until now... I don't know what you are doing there, but only 40fps with a 4080 means that something isn't right on your machine.

 

I agree - I have a 4080 and the best VR performance since 1.5 - mind you, if everything is maxxed out, that may be your problem - no current hardware can handle that and have high framerates as yet.

[Qcumber]

A new Pico 4s?

https://www.roadtovr.com/pico-4s-headset-announcement/

 

[Comstedt86]

On 3/1/2024 at 11:19 AM, RealDCSpilot said:

VD quality setting sets the main resolution per eye. DCS's PD setting can be used as a multiplicator for that main resolution for fine tuning.
As an example, on my end i use "godlike" (3120x3120) and PD of 1.2 to push the super sampling resolution to 3744x3744. Then DLSS takes this resolution and puts it down to 2496x2496 to rescale it back to 3744x3744. Sharpening on 1.0 and it looks pretty crisp, absolutely zero aliasing.

 

Thanks for this tip/post! Been messing around with DCS VR for weeks trying all kinds of different settings from high to ultra in VD without finding a good compromise between visual fidelity and performance. Saw this and decided, yeah what the hell, lets try it out! Running Godlike in VD and PD 1.1 (tried 1.2 first but got some frame drops) and using FSR at similar res as DLSS this is the most clean I've gotten DCS to look sofar in VR with good performance. 

Might dare to say I'm done tinkering! Now bring the Phantom and I'm all set!

[Johnny Dioxin]

EDITED*

Doesn't matter about the rubbish blurry graphics - I've gone back to the pre-22nd Feb open beta, which was working excellently on my rig. I'm so fed up of how this always goes - well over 10 years' worth. I'll stick to the version that works well and stay with that until I've finished with everything made for and working on it. When - or if - I get finished with that, I'll have a think about whether I'll update and try the F-4E I already paid for or just cut my losses, call it a day and enjoy my other sims instead. May also just go back to 1.5.8 and do those campaigns that I paid for, or were included with modules (such as Dixmude for the Gazelle or Deployment for the Ka-50) and since got ruined with updates. Plus the VR worked great in that version, too.

So lots to do without the hassle of repeated frustration-inducing patches.

Ciao.

[Seasick]

Has anyone tried the new Pico Connect? I have not been able to launch DCS with it. As soon as it enters VR it closes by itself.

Edited March 14 by Seasick

[Comstedt86]

19 hours ago, Seasick said:

Has anyone tried the new Pico Connect? I have not been able to launch DCS with it. As soon as it enters VR it closes by itself.

 

Worked for me if I disable quad views, but looks worse than VD imo so I never bothered too much.