Pico 4: how to set it up for DCS?

[WaruKamii]

We're 26 pages deep now and I've been reading a lot of stuff about VD here, but what about SA? I'd really like to have the choice to play both with a wired connection and wireless, for the former I'd need SA. Is the performance with SA just worse or does it straight up not work?

Also, what's the best setup at this point in time? Is running VD with VDXR and nothing else fine?

[MIghtymoo]

59 minutes ago, WaruKamii said:

We're 26 pages deep now and I've been reading a lot of stuff about VD here, but what about SA? I'd really like to have the choice to play both with a wired connection and wireless, for the former I'd need SA. Is the performance with SA just worse or does it straight up not work?

Also, what's the best setup at this point in time? Is running VD with VDXR and nothing else fine?

Image has much worse quality. Also forced to run through SteamVR.

[Lange_666]

9 hours ago, WaruKamii said:

We're 26 pages deep now and I've been reading a lot of stuff about VD here, but what about SA? I'd really like to have the choice to play both with a wired connection and wireless, for the former I'd need SA. Is the performance with SA just worse or does it straight up not work?

Wired with VD should also work, no need to go SA for this.
When i had my Pico, SA just didn't cut it. Worse image quality and ASW not working at all.

[mrsylvestre]

9 hours ago, WaruKamii said:

Also, what's the best setup at this point in time? Is running VD with VDXR and nothing else fine?

Running VD with VDXR is simple and efficient. You may (or should) add QVFR to the mix for another bit of extra performance at negligible image quality cost. Since the latest DCS updates, DCS-MT is the default, you don't need to play with command-line options or anything like that. It just works. VD, VDXR and QVFR are the holy trinity of DCS VR on Pico 4.

For less demanding games/sims (e.g. VTOL VR), the gap between SA and VD is not that big. But in DCS and MSFS2020 a lean, efficient VR software environment is essential.

[Qcumber]

35 minutes ago, mrsylvestre said:

VD, VDXR and QVFR are the holy trinity of DCS VR on Pico 4

I would agree with that. 

[adirtynurse]

Do we have a "Pico 4 QVFR for dummies" guide? I did what I understood from the github guide, but how do I know its on etc?

[Qcumber]

8 hours ago, adirtynurse said:

Do we have a "Pico 4 QVFR for dummies" guide? I did what I understood from the github guide, but how do I know its on etc?

You should see a lower resolution image in your peripheral vision. Also check the QVFR log as this will show you the gains in performance etc. 

https://github.com/mbucchia/Quad-Views-Foveated/wiki/Troubleshooting

You can use steam VR to see if the layer is active or this app; 

https://github.com/fredemmott/OpenXR-API-Layers-GUI#getting-help

This app is useful for easily changing the parameters: 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3332882/#:~:text=Quadviews Companion makes modifying the,implementation of QuadViews a breeze!&text=mbucchia's QuadViews is an essential,you have eye-tracking enabled.

 

[MIghtymoo]

I am not sure that fixed foveated rendering or quadview (non-eye tracked) gives a significant performance boost. 

My tests gave minimal difference in fps.

Urge you to do the same test.

For headsets with eyetracking there is a significant improvement due to the very small area rendered in full quality.

Quadview rendering is very demanding on the CPU, so watch your CPU-frame times (nearly doubled in my tests compared to turned off).

[Qcumber]

29 minutes ago, MIghtymoo said:

I am not sure that fixed foveated rendering or quadview (non-eye tracked) gives a significant performance boost

It depends on your hardware. With a 4090 and 13900k I don't think you will see much difference. Download the QVFR log to see what indicated saving you are making. With a 4070 and 5800x3d I see a big improvement in FPS. 

[rcalfa]

Hi,

I am using Pico 4 with VD but I cannot make it work fine. My plan is to run it slow graphics until I get smooth experience and rise detail little by little keeping FPS.

I found two problems:

1. I would like to see it more smooth, FPS are around 70-80 but I feel little jumps, not smooth. You can see here FPS but not sure are correct.

1.  
2. , I have a problem with the screens of the F18. The letters of the screens are not visible while letters over buttons are clear...red ones not visible, green OK...I don´t know why.
3. 

 

I hope you can help me. Below PC specs and settings.

 

My PC hardware is:

• Intel 12 i7 12700K
• GeForce RTX 3060 TI
• 32GB DDR4

 

I am using DCS Beta MT, not sure if I get more performance than withouth MT, but I guess yes.

VD Config:

 

Do you recommend a specific CODEC or automatic is fine?

I have set PICO 4 with 90Hz.

OPENXR I have set it like follows:

 

DCS Config

[Qcumber]

To get good visuals with Pico 4 you need to use Ultra or Godlike. I don't think you will get 72 FPS and great visuals with a 3060ti. Have you tried with re-projection? 

In terms of smoothness try using turbo mode and locking the frame rate to 72 FPS in OXRTK or even 60 FPS. 

Have you tried using QVFR (fixed) instead of FFR in OXRTK? It takes some of the load off your GPU. 

[rcalfa]

hace 5 minutos, Qcumber dijo:

To get good visuals with Pico 4 you need to use Ultra or Godlike. I don't think you will get 72 FPS and great visuals with a 3060ti. Have you tried with re-projection? 

In terms of smoothness try using turbo mode and locking the frame rate to 72 FPS in OXRTK or even 60 FPS. 

Have you tried using QVFR (fixed) instead of FFR in OXRTK? It takes some of the load off your GPU. 

What characteristic can I improve to be able to read the screens of F18 hornet? I don´t mind losing terraint quality or similar to keep FPS.

 

Sorry, I am just starting, what is OXRTK or QVFR?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Qcumber]

13 minutes ago, rcalfa said:

What characteristic can I improve to be able to read the screens of F18 hornet? I don´t mind losing terraint quality or similar to keep FPS.

 

Sorry, I am just starting, what is OXRTK or QVFR?

 

Thanks in advance.

OXRTK = openxr toolkit which it looks like you are already using.

QVFR = quad views foveated rendering which is also made by mbucchia and is an improvement in the fixed foveated rendering in OXRTK

The best way to read the screens is start with Godlike in virtual desktop. You might also increase pixel density to see how sharp and clear you can get it. You can reduce terrain quality to low DCS. QVFR will reduce peripheral resolution so you can keep a sharp focus on the centre image. 

I will try to post a step by step guide later if that would help. 

[rcalfa]

Thanks. I am going to try what you said.

[Qcumber]

59 minutes ago, rcalfa said:

Thanks. I am going to try what you said.

VD settings:

·         Set codec to HEVC 10 bit

·         Set quality to Godlike

·         Set VR bitrate to 150 Mbps (do you have a wifi 6 router and an ethernet cable connecting your router to PC?; you could consider a usb-ethernet adaptor to give a more stable connection if needed).

·         Turn off sharpening for now.

·         Set SSW to disable (you can toggle this on and off in sim anyway but best to start with off).

·         Set to 72 Hz.

DCS settings:

·         Set everything to low at first.

·         Resolution is set for your monitor not for VR so I would advise setting this to a low setting whilst using VR. Its debatable what difference it makes but might as leave it low.

·         Set the cockpit display resolution to the highest. This is what sets your F-18 displays.

·         Turn off Anisotropic filtering. I don’t see any real benefit in VR and it reduces performance a little.

·         Turn off terrain shadows for now. You can try flat later if you have reasonable performance.

·         Turn off smoke density.

·         Set the other sliders to the middle.

·         Pixel density set to 1.0. You can increase this if the image is not sharp enough for you, up to about 1.4.

·         Turn bloom off in VR settings (this can conflict with QVFR if you use it).

Open XR toolkit:

·         Set upscaling to FSR so that you can see the resolution.

·         Turn off anamorphic setting so that the headset proportions are maintained.

·         With Godlike it should be 3120x3120.

·         Set sharpening to zero for now. You can change this in sim.

·         Turn turbo mode on.

·         Turn off fixed foveated rendering.

Quad Views Foveated Rendering:

·         Download it here: GitHub - mbucchia/Quad-Views-Foveated: An OpenXR API layer to emulate quad views and foveated rendering support on many headsets.

·         Use the default setting for now. You can edit these easily using this add on:

·         QuadViews Companion (digitalcombatsimulator.com)

See how you get on with these settings first then you can start tweaking things to get the right balance.

Edited January 12, 2024 by Qcumber

[rcalfa]

hace 23 minutos, Qcumber dijo:

VD settings:

·         Set codec to HEVC 10 bit

·         Set quality to Godlike

·         Set VR bitrate to 150 Mbps (do you have a wifi 6 router and an ethernet cable connecting your router to PC?; you could consider a usb-ethernet adaptor to give a more stable connection if needed).

·         Turn off sharpening for now.

·         Set SSW to disable (you can toggle this on and off in sim anyway but best to start with off).

·         Set to 72 Hz.

DCS settings:

·         Set everything to low at first.

·         Resolution is set for your monitor not for VR so I would advise setting this to a low setting whilst using VR. Its debatable what difference it makes but might as leave it low.

·         Set the cockpit display resolution to the highest. This is what sets your F-18 displays.

·         Turn off Anisotropic filtering. I don’t see any real benefit in VR and it reduces performance a little.

·         Turn off terrain shadows for now. You can try flat later if you have reasonable performance.

·         Turn off smoke density.

·         Set the other sliders to the middle.

·         Pixel density set to 1.0. You can increase this if the image is not sharp enough for you, up to about 1.4.

·         Turn bloom off in VR settings (this can conflict with QVFR if you use it).

Open XR toolkit:

·         Set upscaling to FSR so that you can see the resolution.

·         Turn off anamorphic setting so that the headset proportions are maintained.

·         With Godlike it should be 3120x3120.

·         Set sharpening to zero for now. You can change this in sim.

·         Turn turbo mode on.

·         Turn off fixed foveated rendering.

·         Quad Views Foveated Rendering:

·         Download it here: GitHub - mbucchia/Quad-Views-Foveated: An OpenXR API layer to emulate quad views and foveated rendering support on many headsets.

·         Use the default setting for now. You can edit these easily using this add on:

·         QuadViews Companion (digitalcombatsimulator.com)

See how you get on with these settings first then you can start tweaking things to get the right balance.

Thank you. With all of these it goes around 35 FPS - 40FPS, and smoother than before going to 70FPS, but most important, I figure it out which mode was distorsioning the Screens in the F18, was the Fixed Foveated Rendering in performance. When I turn it off the screens became readible again. 

 

This has to go OFF or in Quality Mode.

Before in Performance

Now

 

I will keep testing.Thank you!

[rcalfa]

Last question for today,

 

When I turn on TURBO MODE, which seems very usefull. A menu apear showing FPS in my VR. Is there a way to turn this info off the view?

[Koziolek]

you can turn this off here

Edited January 12, 2024 by Koziolek

[Qcumber]

28 minutes ago, rcalfa said:

Thank you. With all of these it goes around 35 FPS - 40FPS, and smoother than before going to 70FPS, but most important, I figure it out which mode was distorsioning the Screens in the F18, was the Fixed Foveated Rendering in performance. When I turn it off the screens became readible again. 

I forgot to say to try DLSS at quality and at balanced, to see how this looks. This will probably give you another 5-10 fps but does make the text slightly burry. 

You can offset with increasing sharpening. 

Edited January 12, 2024 by Qcumber

[rcalfa]

hace 21 horas, Qcumber dijo:

I forgot to say to try DLSS at quality and at balanced, to see how this looks. This will probably give you another 5-10 fps but does make the text slightly burry. 

You can offset with increasing sharpening. 

 

Thanks. Where is the DLSS setting? Sorry, too many names hehe.

 

Other thing I notice is that sometimes when I look down, there is something activate to auto-center the view where I am looking, it is anoying, do you know if I can turn this off and where?

 

thank you in advance, I am finding very good advices and tips here.

[Qcumber]

25 minutes ago, rcalfa said:

Thanks. Where is the DLSS setting? Sorry, too many names hehe.

 

Other thing I notice is that sometimes when I look down, there is something activate to auto-center the view where I am looking, it is anoying, do you know if I can turn this off and where?

 

thank you in advance, I am finding very good advices and tips here.

The DLSS setting is under supersampling. It is just below Antialiasing on the top left of the options section. 

I am not sure why your view is auto-centering. Have you set this to a keybind? You can find this in the UI section of the key settings. 

[Johnny Dioxin]

1 hour ago, rcalfa said:

Other thing I notice is that sometimes when I look down, there is something activate to auto-center the view where I am looking, it is anoying, do you know if I can turn this off and where?

 

thank you in advance, I am finding very good advices and tips here.

At last someone else with this issue - I've had it for months, over two completely different PCs, but only with Pico 4 (I also use Quest 2 occasionally, and Index, but obviously not wirelessly) and through Virtual Desktop - it's a real PITA and has sometimes caused me to use Index instead of Pico in DCS.

When I posted here and elsewhere about it and uploaded videos, no-one had any answer. When I went on VD Discord I had no luck - the guy who was "helping" was either being deliberately obstinate or didn't know the app very well and was no help at all and I gave up there. Shame you can no longer directly email Guy (afaik) as he has been very helpful in years past.

 

This is definitely a VD thing, as it doesn't happen in other cases and I've had it happen in all flight sims - but not in other VR games like NMS etc and DCS is the worst of the lot.

 

I can upload a video again if no-one has seen it, or if you would like one to use for reference in your own search for a solution.

Edited January 13, 2024 by Johnny Dioxin

[MIghtymoo]

Just a small observation. I tried the H.264 codec, because someone recommended this for better performance.

Looks good and session was very smooth for me.

[rcalfa]

hace 5 horas, Johnny Dioxin dijo:

Okay I made a quick edit of a couple of videos of the issue - this has DCS and Elite:

 

 

Thank you, exactly this. This mad circle… Hehe.

It do not happen always, in fact, Ithought I turn it off and somehow turn it on…

I think is VD thing as you said, and also, think I saw an option for turning it off but at this time I did not know The meaning and I cant find find it again, or it was a dream hehe

 

hope someone can help 

[mrsylvestre]

On 1/11/2024 at 10:26 AM, MIghtymoo said:

I am not sure that fixed foveated rendering or quadview (non-eye tracked) gives a significant performance boost. 

My tests gave minimal difference in fps.

Quadview rendering is very demanding on the CPU, so watch your CPU-frame times (nearly doubled in my tests compared to turned off).

 

On 1/11/2024 at 10:57 AM, Qcumber said:

It depends on your hardware. With a 4090 and 13900k I don't think you will see much difference. Download the QVFR log to see what indicated saving you are making. With a 4070 and 5800x3d I see a big improvement in FPS.

+1 for QVFR benefits that depend on your hardware.

On a 6950XT / 5800x3d system, the performance gain is significant. For instance, my DCS graphics settings are tuned (down) so that I can run the F-16 over Golan Heights instant action mission at 72 fps native (no retroprojection) on the Pico 4, with QVFR. This is with VD on Ultra (2736x2736 per eye). If I disable QVFR, everything else being unchanged, that system cannot reach 72 fps anymore (stutter fest). I guess that it is because in general with DCS VR my GPU is bottlenecking long before the CPU is, so offsetting some of the load from the GPU to the CPU with QVFR results in an overall performance increase. OTOH, with a 4090 monster that can cope with resolutions of 4000x4000+ per eye and flying the Apache over Paris, shifting some of the load to the CPU might be counterproductive. This could especially be the case in MP which is notorious for hammering the CPU. I would also assume that the extra load on the CPU from QVFR might increase with resolution.

Edited January 16, 2024 by mrsylvestre
Typos, and one GPU that should have been CPU (confusion) - Key message unchanged