correct as-is F-16 FCR Target History

[DCS FIGHTER PILOT]

After launching an AMRAAM on a target, there are many reason why you might have to break away and lose radar contact with it for a brief time.  In the Viper, after radar contact is lost, the FCR only stores the tracks last known state for a few seconds regardless of what value target history is set to on the FCR control page.  Once it is gone, your only hope of hitting the target is if the ARMAAM finds it itself (which lately, seems very unlikely). The Hornet on the other hand, can store the track in its memory for up to 32 seconds which gives it the ability to re-acquire it even after radar contact is lost. In this case, an AMRAAM launched after radar contact loss will still successfully guide on the target. 

Is the Viper's short target history a bug or is this truly how its radar works? Regardless, because of this, I have wasted many AMRAAMs that would have otherwise intercepted their targets. 

 

F-16 Target Memory.trk F-18 Target Memory.trk

Edited December 17, 2022 by DCS FIGHTER PILOT

[Aquorys]

Track history and coast is a couple seconds, but it's not anywhere close to 32

[DCS FIGHTER PILOT]

On 12/17/2022 at 7:18 PM, Aquorys said:

Track history and coast is a couple seconds, but it's not anywhere close to 32

So is there any way to recover an AMRAAM that is already launched on a target that is no longer being tracked or is it done? 
 

I would think that all you would need to do is to find and track the target again but apparently this is incorrect. 

[Aquorys]

Depending on the launch platform and other assets that contribute information, there are some in real life, but most of them are classified and therefore cannot be discussed. One of the few examples that I can mention, because it can even be found in publicly available advertisement materials, is the Eurofighter's ability to launch at and keep track of targets that the launch aircraft's sensors cannot see, as long as a track of sufficient quality is shared by another compatible aircraft (e.g., another Eurofighter, an AEW&C platform or similar asset); implicitly meaning that as long as there is some valid tracking data available, it is not necessary for the launch aircraft to continue tracking.
You can probably make your own estimates about what modern aircraft like the F-22 and F-35 can do with their various sensors and datalink capabilities.

With what we currently have in DCS, as far as I am aware, there are none.

[Hobel]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb DCS FIGHTER PILOT:

So is there any way to recover an AMRAAM that is already launched on a target that is no longer being tracked or is it done? 
 

I would think that all you would need to do is to find and track the target again but apparently this is incorrect. 

So if I understand the question correctly, yes, that should work in dcs.

 

   Lock a target, fire the aim 120, after firing Los the lock, wait 15-20s and then lock the target again, you can then see how the aim 120 tries to reach the target.   This only works with the same target, unfortunately it is not possible to simply switch.  

[Harker]

If the track is dropped completely (memory times out etc), it shouldn't be possible to "re-acquire the same target". The FCR doesn't know that it's the same target, it's just a new contact now. For all the FCR (and possibly the pilot) knows, it's a different aircraft. Thus, the FCR shouldn't send guidance commands to the already launched AMRAAM, and the latter should simply continue towards the last intercept point.

If that's not the case, then it's either an engine limitation or its WIP.

The Hornet is a different case, since it employs MSI. The radar is not a necessary contributor for a trackfile to exist. MSI can use Datalink (and other) data to build and maintain trackfiles, although that part is not fully fleshed out yet in DCS. Thus, even if the radar drops the target, as long as other sensors contribute to MSI, it is maintained. However, if the radar is the only thing that contributes to the trackfile, the above conversation also applies here.

[Hobel]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Harker:

If the track is dropped completely (memory times out etc), it shouldn't be possible to "re-acquire the same target". The FCR doesn't know that it's the same target, it's just a new contact now. For all the FCR (and possibly the pilot) knows, it's a different aircraft. Thus, the FCR shouldn't send guidance commands to the already launched AMRAAM, and the latter should simply continue towards the last intercept point.

okay i tested the whole thing again
and seems to have changed something, it behaves now as you say

[DCS FIGHTER PILOT]

I could very well be wrong (seeing as how the two missiles and their methods of guidance are different), but given that an Aim-7 can guide back onto a target after losing lock (at least in game as of now), is it incorrect to assume that a more advanced AMRAAM could perform similar feats? 

Aim-7P Recovery.trk

Edited December 21, 2022 by DCS FIGHTER PILOT

[Harker]

I could very well be wrong (seeing as how the two missiles and their methods of guidance are different), but given that an Aim-7 can guide back onto a target after losing lock (at least in game as of now), is it incorrect to assume that a more advanced AMRAAM could perform similar feats? 
Aim-7P Recovery.trk

That's different, the AIM-7 guides by having the seeker pick up the radar's PDI signal reflected from the target. If it sees a reflection, it'll go towards it. That also means that you can illuminate another target with your radar and the AIM-7 won't know any better and go for that one (not sure if that's possible in DCS).

The AMRAAM instead guides towards a trackfile (a software-created target, that has position, velocity, acceleration data etc) by using commands received directly from the radar, it doesn't rely on anything being reflected by the target. It then turns on its own seeker and starts combining both the received commands and its own active seeker data. The AMRAAM doesn't know if the actual target even exists, prior to detecting it itself.
I guess one way to switch targets post-launch would be for your radar to mistakenly associate a different aircraft with the existing trackfile, I'm pretty sure that's not possible in DCS though. Then again, once the ARMAAM goes active, if it fails to spot the desired target, it'll increase the acceptable limits for velocity, acceleration and distance from the intercept point, in an attempt to re-acquire. During that step, it's possible that it picks up another aircraft in its search volume. Both of these scenarios are not pilot-controllable though.

Of course, the above are based on my understanding. I don't have any official documents that describe the AMRAAM's behavior in detail and I have no idea what newer versions are capable of.

[BIGNEWY]

Please stay on the topic " F-16 FCR Target History" 

Thank you