Greco Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 Folks: I just flew the Su-25 in the 1.1 Demo, and I encountered a couple of problems: 1) I could not enable the ALT-HOLD command. Pressing the "H" key did nothing 2) I also could not trim the Su-25 using my X-45 rotary wheels. All the joystick mappings are correct in the options screen. I can only trim using the keyboard. Note: the ALT-HOLD and joystick trim works fine for the A-10 in the 1.1 Demo Has anyone else encountered these problems? Cheers, Greco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmut Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 both 1) and 2) are by design. Su-25 is not equipped with altitude stabilizer, and support only HAT-trimming. "There are five dangerous faults which may affect a general: recklessness, which leads to destruction; cowardice, which leads to capture; a hasty temper, which can be provoked by insults; a delicacy of honor which is sensitive to shame; over-solicitude for his men, which exposes him to worry and trouble." Sun Tzu [sigpic]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic2354_5.gif[/sigpic] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greco Posted February 20, 2005 Author Share Posted February 20, 2005 Thanks for the reply Dmut.....but I have to ask you: where in the documentation does it say that ALT-HOLD and joystick-wheel trimming is not implemented in the Su-25? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilgrim Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 2. Can be done if you use the saitek profiler. I have both trim up, down, left and reight mapped to my rotarys. Use 3 bands when you profile them. 1 that goes from 1-45% a dead zone 45-55% and the last band 55-100% ASUS P4T533-C|P4 3.06@3.45|1024Mb Kingston 1066 rambus|ATI 9.... *EDITED* - Listen to Mods!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldcrew Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 ignore them, anytime you report a bug someone will chime in and say something that is not the bug you reported is working. I'm pretty confident the rotary thing will be correct in the full release. by design my ass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Chizh Posted February 20, 2005 ED Team Share Posted February 20, 2005 ignore them, anytime you report a bug someone will chime in and say something that is not the bug you reported is working. I'm pretty confident the rotary thing will be correct in the full release. by design my ass No. It will not be in the release. Su-25 (except Su-25T) has no autopilot absolutely. Therefore it does not engage automatic mode keys such as A and H. Trimming by only HAT; it is AFM feature as a real aircraft. Единственный урок, который можно извлечь из истории, состоит в том, что люди не извлекают из истории никаких уроков. (С) Джордж Бернард Шоу Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldcrew Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 ignore them, anytime you report a bug someone will chime in and say something that is not the bug you reported is working. I'm pretty confident the rotary thing will be correct in the full release. by design my ass No. It will not be in the release. Su-25 (except Su-25T) has no autopilot absolutely. Therefore it does not engage automatic mode keys such as A and H. Trimming by only HAT; it is AFM feature as a real aircraft. right.. because in the real aircraft you have a computer keyboard and you use ;,./ to move the cursor :evil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovy Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 right.. because in the real aircraft you have a computer keyboard and you use ;,./ to move the cursor put those keys on your hat. Asus A7N8X-E (nForce2) + Athlon XP3000 + Geforce 4 ti 4200 (64 MB) + drivers 66.93+ 1 GB ram (dual chanel mode) win 2000 sp4 + direct-X 9c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmut Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Thanks for the reply Dmut.....but I have to ask you: where in the documentation does it say that ALT-HOLD and joystick-wheel trimming is not implemented in the Su-25?I tried to find this in FC documentation but had no luck. ED will amend it in next release of documentation files. ignore them, anytime you report a bug someone will chime in and say something that is not the bug you reported is working. I'm pretty confident the rotary thing will be correct in the full release. by design my assIt's not a good attitude to tell other to ignore a mod. If I say "it's by design" it means I've saw a definite answer from developers on this point. "There are five dangerous faults which may affect a general: recklessness, which leads to destruction; cowardice, which leads to capture; a hasty temper, which can be provoked by insults; a delicacy of honor which is sensitive to shame; over-solicitude for his men, which exposes him to worry and trouble." Sun Tzu [sigpic]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic2354_5.gif[/sigpic] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldcrew Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 ignore them, anytime you report a bug someone will chime in and say something that is not the bug you reported is working. I'm pretty confident the rotary thing will be correct in the full release. by design my assIt's not a good attitude to tell other to ignore a mod. If I say "it's by design" it means I've saw a definite answer from developers on this point. I guess I didn't buy the excuse why it was by design. Because you can map trim to anything except the rotaries. I mapped it to the mouse move and other buttons so "hatswitch only" isn't exactly correct, more like anything except rotaries. The reason the excuse is [censored] is because those of us not using external profiler softwares are stuck with one joystick setup for all the planes. If the in game config had different setups for different planes it wouldn't be a problem, but why exclude a perfectly good available rotary for no good reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sealpup Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 ignore them, anytime you report a bug someone will chime in and say something that is not the bug you reported is working. I'm pretty confident the rotary thing will be correct in the full release. by design my ass No. It will not be in the release. Su-25 (except Su-25T) has no autopilot absolutely. Therefore it does not engage automatic mode keys such as A and H. Trimming by only HAT; it is AFM feature as a real aircraft. right.. because in the real aircraft you have a computer keyboard and you use ;,./ to move the cursor :evil: No, because on real aircraft you have DIGITAL 4-way or 8-way switches in various places...and since therre are no such switches on a keyboard, they just use the DIGITAL keys that are in similar proximity to each other. By the explination givin, it sounds like the SU-25's do not have analoug trim control in the real world, and such they disabled that ability for them in the sim. And if you dont buy that... :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Yo-Yo Posted February 21, 2005 ED Team Share Posted February 21, 2005 No, because on real aircraft you have DIGITAL 4-way or 8-way switches in various places...and since therre are no such switches on a keyboard, they just use the DIGITAL keys that are in similar proximity to each other. By the explination givin, it sounds like the SU-25's do not have analoug trim control in the real world, and such they disabled that ability for them in the sim. And if you dont buy that... :roll: I'll try to explain about the trimmers and autopilot on Su-25. First of all: this plane never had an autopilot. Making AFM accurate performance of the plane and carefully modelling real plane systems (hydro, electric, nav gyro gauges, etc) and trying to get the highest realism level the sim ever had the developers regarded that implementing the features real plane never had can spoil the model and the "feel of the plane". Frankly, the rotary trimmers is a cheat in most planes. Very useful but a cheat... For example in Su-25 there are neither rotary trimmer knobs nor trimmer indicators except zero trimming lamps. The trimmer servomechanism has a constant speed and the only way to control it properly is a "+/Off/-" three position switch. But it's possible to have this controls on the hat for Su-25 and on the rotators for the others or use the rotators as three position switches. Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles. Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
504th Shrapnel Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 ignore them, anytime you report a bug someone will chime in and say something that is not the bug you reported is working. I'm pretty confident the rotary thing will be correct in the full release. by design my ass No. It will not be in the release. Su-25 (except Su-25T) has no autopilot absolutely. Therefore it does not engage automatic mode keys such as A and H. Trimming by only HAT; it is AFM feature as a real aircraft. Ive just learned something :shock: .I also tought it was a bug about my beloved rotarys not working. Bah I suppose I will have to get used to trim with my hats. :? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceflier Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 No rotary trim? Grrr. Guess ED just added 1 flyable and took 1 away for me at least. I dont have but 3 hatswitches and the way my stick is setup one of the 4 way hats makes for alt/shft/cntrl the 2nd is gear/flaps/airbrake/wheelbrake and the other I use to look around in the pit. (Been flying lockon for over a year like this) Taking the rotary trim away for me takes the su25 away. I wouldnt mind it all that much if I could map windows key to my rudder in the throttle but for some reason it wont take. It shows in software but wont come up in game. BTW I use an x45 throttle w/ffb2 stick. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gel214th Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 I'll try to explain about the trimmers and autopilot on Su-25. First of all: this plane never had an autopilot. Making AFM accurate performance of the plane and carefully modelling real plane systems (hydro, electric, nav gyro gauges, etc) and trying to get the highest realism level the sim ever had the developers regarded that implementing the features real plane never had can spoil the model and the "feel of the plane". Frankly, the rotary trimmers is a cheat in most planes. Very useful but a cheat... For example in Su-25 there are neither rotary trimmer knobs nor trimmer indicators except zero trimming lamps. The trimmer servomechanism has a constant speed and the only way to control it properly is a "+/Off/-" three position switch. But it's possible to have this controls on the hat for Su-25 and on the rotators for the others or use the rotators as three position switches. :) I guess this is yet another reason why I don't particularly enjoy flying the SU25. It seems almost masochistic. 8) Fly by wire! Fly by wire! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team Yo-Yo Posted February 21, 2005 ED Team Share Posted February 21, 2005 No rotary trim? Grrr. Guess ED just added 1 flyable and took 1 away for me at least. I dont have but 3 hatswitches and the way my stick is setup one of the 4 way hats makes for alt/shft/cntrl the 2nd is gear/flaps/airbrake/wheelbrake and the other I use to look around in the pit. (Been flying lockon for over a year like this) Taking the rotary trim away for me takes the su25 away. I wouldnt mind it all that much if I could map windows key to my rudder in the throttle but for some reason it wont take. It shows in software but wont come up in game. BTW I use an x45 throttle w/ffb2 stick. I think a real pilot would be surprised knowing your hat settings... :) I agree it's very convenient :) but in the real plane gear/flaps/airbrake/wheelbrake are not tied to one hat... if you want to have your simulation more close to the real things you should not use this "cheaters hat". Two buttons or switch for the gear, the same - for the flaps, for the airbrake and a button for the wheelbrake. For example, Su-25 (Su-27 as well though) has the airbrakes switch on the throttle, gear up/down pull-and-turn lever at left bottom of the instrumental panel and the wheelbrakes on the rudder pedals. It doesn't look like "four-in-one" hat you wrote about. :) May be it would be better to place trimmers there they belong? To be close to the real controls. Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles. Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ruggbutt Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 For example, Su-25 (Su-27 as well though) has the airbrakes switch on the throttle, gear up/down pull-and-turn lever at left bottom of the instrumental panel and the wheelbrakes on the rudder pedals. It doesn't look like "four-in-one" hat you wrote about. :) May be it would be better to place trimmers there they belong? To be close to the real controls. I have my setup just like that. Toebrakes on my rudder pedals control brakes, a lever on my Throttle Quad controls the gear up/down and airbrakes on the throttle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBot Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 ... and the wheelbrakes on the rudder pedals. Do I read toebrake support for 1.2 ? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobby Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 ... I dont have but 3 hatswitches and the way my stick is setup one of the 4 way hats makes for alt/shft/cntrl the 2nd is gear/flaps/airbrake/wheelbrake and the other I use to look around in the pit. ... This is something I don't get: why do so many people feel the urge to map each and every key to their hotas? In the example given (no offence, aceflier...) you need the flaps/gear/wheelbrake exactly twice during a sortie, namely after takeoff and before landing. It's easy to use the keyboard for that, also in the real planes that is a switch in your cockpit and not on your stick (airbrake is another thing, though). Hotas means to not have to get your hands off your controls in combat or in difficult flying situations (like re-trim), not to be able to fly without touching anything else but the stick... Just my two cents... Cheers Dobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ruggbutt Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Do I read toebrake support for 1.2 ? :) I doubt it. Unless the config screen is different for the full version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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