Ways to make the SP pilot/cpg relationship a bit more rewarding?

[Digitalvole]

As a committed singleton when it comes to DCS I really enjoy flying the AH64 but I must admit fighting in it is a bit dull. The gameplay loop of pressing “search for targets” followed by “engage target” gets old pretty fast. I know it’s best enjoyed with two humans but not all of us have the time/social circle to allow for this.

So I was thinking of how the single player experience could be improved and was wondering what ideas others have?

As I’m not, nor ever have been a dev I’m likely to suggest things that are either straight up impossible or take so much work as to be not worth the effort. But here goes anyway…

1) George seems able to detect units even if only a small proportion of said unit is visible. It’d be great, if that was the case, if he could give instructions on how to get a clear image/shot on the target. Ie “up a bit, left a bit” etc. At the moment he’s like a magic murderous flash light, shine it in the general area and that’s all you need do.

2) Alternatively, if he can see (let’s say) less than 50% or less of the unit he could tell the pilot something like “there’s something obscured in that tree line (followed by directions)”. 

3)Calling out if he sees something that we might not have. Eg; your flying along and all of a sudden George shouts “Holy sheeet, is that a tank in that bush over there!” 

I understand that developing for multiplayer is easier than developing an aI that acts like a real person.

Ps I bet this has all been gone over before and I’m just late to the party, if so apologies.

[sirrah]

George is still very much work in progress.

For instance, in one of the last OB updates several callouts were added to George's vocabulary.

I'm sure ED will continue to tweak and improve "him".

 

For now, I suggest you take time and learn the CPG seat. Yes I agree, the piloting is awesome, but you can also switch to the CPG seat and pretty much do an entire mission from there (which I think is also super fun )

[Tiger-II]

I can't help but think the second crew member, aside from being a second pair of eyes, is superfluous to the aircraft. I think it could easily be a single-pilot ship.

I think by not having a second human, we are missing a lot more than ability to operate weapons.

I, too, struggle to find a second crew member to fly with that also doesn't want to fly their own aircraft. I think the vast majority are here to *fly*, not be flown.

There is a reason I keep going back to the 'Shark.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Tiger-II

[admiki]

3 hours ago, Digitalvole said:

As a committed singleton when it comes to DCS I really enjoy flying the AH64 but I must admit fighting in it is a bit dull. The gameplay loop of pressing “search for targets” followed by “engage target” gets old pretty fast. I know it’s best enjoyed with two humans but not all of us have the time/social circle to allow for this.

So I was thinking of how the single player experience could be improved and was wondering what ideas others have?

As I’m not, nor ever have been a dev I’m likely to suggest things that are either straight up impossible or take so much work as to be not worth the effort. But here goes anyway…

1) George seems able to detect units even if only a small proportion of said unit is visible. It’d be great, if that was the case, if he could give instructions on how to get a clear image/shot on the target. Ie “up a bit, left a bit” etc. At the moment he’s like a magic murderous flash light, shine it in the general area and that’s all you need do.

2) Alternatively, if he can see (let’s say) less than 50% or less of the unit he could tell the pilot something like “there’s something obscured in that tree line (followed by directions)”. 

3)Calling out if he sees something that we might not have. Eg; your flying along and all of a sudden George shouts “Holy sheeet, is that a tank in that bush over there!” 

I understand that developing for multiplayer is easier than developing an aI that acts like a real person.

Ps I bet this has all been gone over before and I’m just late to the party, if so apologies.

ED is giving that functionality (at least some of it) to Petrovich as a test platform. It will spill over to George.

This being said........

Join a squadron.

Black Shark Den for example. We have both EU and US people (actually from all around the world) and we require one flight per month with another BSD member (doesn't need to be mission, it can be just for fun 1 hour flight).

[Floyd1212]

2 hours ago, Tiger-II said:

I can't help but think the second crew member, aside from being a second pair of eyes, is superfluous to the aircraft. I think it could easily be a single-pilot ship.

I think by not having a second human, we are missing a lot more than ability to operate weapons.

These two statements seem to contradict one another, no?

"Flying" from the front seat while the aircraft is hovering, and you have your head down in the TEDAC plinking targets is one thing, but actually flying the aircraft, NOE, while a Tor is tracking you, and you are evading missiles while your human CPG is trying to get a shot off and maintain a track is where it's at.  You're not going to be able to do both of those things at once, and give each of them 100% of your concentration.

How does that scenario work in the Shark by yourself?  I don't own that module.

 

[Tiger-II]

Works pretty well in the Shark. First you dodge the Tor, then find a place to kill it. You need to prioritize targets. The one shooting at you is top of the list, unless there is another stopping you from positioning to kill the one shooting at you...

No, the two are not contradictory. The second pilot isn't required from a systems perspective. Flying and weapons can be done by a single pilot, but you lose the second human's eyes and cognition.

I personally find it odd to keep jumping seats.

[Raptor9]

1 hour ago, Tiger-II said:

I personally find it odd to keep jumping seats.

Technically, you really only need to be in the back seat to operate the APU, start the engines, and control the exterior lighting. Everything else can be from the front seat if desired, from flying to targeting to shooting. It just comes down to ensuring you have enough controls mapped to do both at the same time.

The only real obstacle is the fact you can't display flight symbology on your helmet display while also operating the TADS, since they are mutually exclusive. But beyond that, there is nothing stopping anyone from solely operating the aircraft from the front seat once they get the engines started.

[Tiger-II]

1 hour ago, Raptor9 said:

Technically, you really only need to be in the back seat to operate the APU, start the engines, and control the exterior lighting. Everything else can be from the front seat if desired, from flying to targeting to shooting. It just comes down to ensuring you have enough controls mapped to do both at the same time.

The only real obstacle is the fact you can't display flight symbology on your helmet display while also operating the TADS, since they are mutually exclusive. But beyond that, there is nothing stopping anyone from solely operating the aircraft from the front seat once they get the engines started.

Interesting. Thanks!

[Digitalvole]

On 1/5/2023 at 6:16 PM, sirrah said:

For now, I suggest you take time and learn the CPG seat. Yes I agree, the piloting is awesome, but you can also switch to the CPG seat and pretty much do an entire mission from there (which I think is also super fun )

Ive never been a fan of seat swapping, for me it kinda breaks the immersion. That being said I think you’re right and this is a good idea, though I’m a little intimidated by the button count in the CPG seat. I mean I like buttons as much as the next guy, but I think they may have over done it in this thing! Also I’m not sure I trust Pilot George.

On 1/5/2023 at 9:57 PM, admiki said:

ED is giving that functionality (at least some of it) to Petrovich as a test platform. It will spill over to George.

This being said........

Join a squadron.

Black Shark Den for example. We have both EU and US people (actually from all around the world) and we require one flightless look per month with another BSD member (doesn't need to be mission, it qcan be just for fun 1 hour flight).

Joining a Squadron was my New Years resolution last year, it didn’t end well I’ve got young kids and the limitations that brings were not understood by the Sqdns I joined.

On 1/6/2023 at 12:34 AM, Raptor9 said:

Technically, you really only need to be in the back seat to operate the APU, start the engines, and control the exterior lighting. Everything else can be from the front seat if desired, from flying to targeting to shooting. It just comes down to ensuring you have enough controls mapped to do both at the same time.

The only real obstacle is the fact you can't display flight symbology on your helmet display while also operating the TADS, since they are mutually exclusive. But beyond that, there is nothing stopping anyone from solely operating the aircraft from the front seat once they get the engines started.

Might have to try this too, though I’d imagine it works better from a static position. I can’t picture how you’d keep your speed up and be using the TADS. Multi tasking is not my strong point.

I hope at some point in the future hunting for targets with George feels more interactive, like we are a team. Being able to zoom from* back seat would be a great start so we can scope out a target area, I thought it was a real shame this can’t be done with the lantirn in the Tomcat.

On an unrelated topic, but I didn’t want to start a new thread, I’m finding i barely need to touch the rudder pedals when taking off/coming up to a 5 ft hover. Have I got some hidden assist on somewhere? I’ve had a good look in the options but can’t see anything like “auto rudder”. I’m on 2.7 btw.

Edit: *missed that bit out oops

Edited January 8, 2023 by Digitalvole

[Floyd1212]

2 hours ago, Digitalvole said:

Have I got some hidden assist on somewhere?

The Stability and Control Augmentation System (SCAS) is always providing a little bit of assist to keep the aircraft stable.  And in this case, the yaw channel is adding a little bit of left pedal for you to keep the heading stable.  You can display the flight controls overlay and see the system working (the green markings) to adjust your inputs.

[Digitalvole]

Aha, well that’s a very nice thing for it to do. 
Thanks @Floyd1212 As long as I don’t have it on easy mode by mistake I’m happy.