Course Heading with Waypoint

[bonesvf103]

Is there a way to set a course heading with a waypoint/fixed point/IP/HB/etc?  Like how you can if you are tuned into a TACAN?  I would like to make some instrument approaches via WP but can't seem to find anyway to put in a course.

 

v6,

boNes

[draconus]

You can select MAN steering mode and then set the course.

[bonesvf103]

I tried that but it didn't seem to make a course radial from my waypoint.  ie, when I set the mode to DEST and folllow that waypoint caret, then switch to MAN, the course select becomes active, but the waypoint caret changes to say, my left instead of straight ahead.  That confuses me.  What am I missing?

v6,

boNes

Edited January 10, 2023 by bonesvf103

[bonesvf103]

Looked up MAN steering in the Heatblur manual and all it says is, "MAN - Manual, selects manually selected course and heading as steering command source." but nothing about how to operate or utilize it.  RIght now it seems it's only good for use as a heading bug or something.

 

v6,

boNes

[The_Tau]

You cant make radial out of waypoint.

Only way you can do similar result is giving waypoint speed and heading in RIO seat and following the line on TID (roughly, as it wasn't designed for it, keep in mind MagVar).

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by The_Tau

[bonesvf103]

Hm, I wonder how they can do instrument approaches if the airfield doesn't have a TACAN or TACAN approach.  I'm sure it must be possible even in the later years of the Tomcat.

 

v6,

boNes

[draconus]

You can use some beacon and ADF radio mode (RIO's).

edit: I tested last night - the deviation indication you get only for TACAN steering. It's not like HSI from F-15.

Edited January 11, 2023 by draconus

[bonesvf103]

True but ADF and NDB approaches are few and far between.  The only other thing I've been able to do is visualization and hope it's close, haha.

v6,

boNes

Edited January 11, 2023 by bonesvf103

[The_Tau]

Personally I use add on GPS NS430 module for such functionality. 

[Spiceman]

On 1/10/2023 at 1:00 PM, bonesvf103 said:

Hm, I wonder how they can do instrument approaches if the airfield doesn't have a TACAN or TACAN approach.  I'm sure it must be possible even in the later years of the Tomcat.

 

v6,

boNes

PAR approaches were the other type of instrument approach commonly used.

[WinOrLose]

On 1/10/2023 at 2:45 PM, bonesvf103 said:

Looked up MAN steering in the Heatblur manual and all it says is, "MAN - Manual, selects manually selected course and heading as steering command source." but nothing about how to operate or utilize it.  RIght now it seems it's only good for use as a heading bug or something.

 

v6,

boNes

Can you visualise it "in your head"?

If you know the bearing to the WP and you know the course you want to be flying when you get there (runway alignment I presume) then you can use point to point techniques to get you on course and the correct heading.

[bonesvf103]

15 hours ago, WinOrLose said:

Can you visualise it "in your head"?

If you know the bearing to the WP and you know the course you want to be flying when you get there (runway alignment I presume) then you can use point to point techniques to get you on course and the correct heading.

It may take that but it won't be as precise and I don't know that I'd have the time and space to do that.  By visualizing, I would basically have to put the WP on my nose and see what my heading to it is and if it's off, then I'd have to turn onto to the correct course once I hit the WP, which depending on how far off it is might be a huge turn that I would have to correct back on the outbound.  Then I'd have to center the course on my heading and insure the WP is at my 6 the whole time, which is not very precise but what can I do?  And then if it's a non precision approach like a VOR-A then it may lead me to the runway but have me be off center by say 20 degrees and if the visibility is not there, I wou;wouldn't be able to correct in time and would have to go missed. (Tonapah is a good example that comes to mind).

 

I'll give it a few shots and see how it goes.

v6,

boNes

 

[WinOrLose]

2 hours ago, bonesvf103 said:

It may take that but it won't be as precise and I don't know that I'd have the time and space to do that.  By visualizing, I would basically have to put the WP on my nose and see what my heading to it is and if it's off, then I'd have to turn onto to the correct course once I hit the WP, which depending on how far off it is might be a huge turn that I would have to correct back on the outbound.  Then I'd have to center the course on my heading and insure the WP is at my 6 the whole time, which is not very precise but what can I do?  And then if it's a non precision approach like a VOR-A then it may lead me to the runway but have me be off center by say 20 degrees and if the visibility is not there, I wou;wouldn't be able to correct in time and would have to go missed. (Tonapah is a good example that comes to mind).

 

I'll give it a few shots and see how it goes.

v6,

boNes

 

With a waypoint its a lot easier as you have DME information and could place the waypoint on the airfield. ADF is a little more difficult but I'm assuming you are in IFR so you should have a rough idea of location as you should be on a flight plan.

Its an example which I hope helps.

 

 

 

[bonesvf103]

@WinOrLose

Thanks for the help, and diagrams!

In step 1, I understand the math that gets you 7.5, but where do you get the 60, the 20, and the 1%?  And by a half standard turn you mean a 1 minute turn rather than a 2 minute turn, ie, you round a circle in 4 minutes so you are turning at 1.5 deg/sec rather than the usual 3 deg/second?

In step 2, did you get 082 because 090-7.5=82.5 which is about 082?

In step 3 the ADF shows pointing at near 360 but you said it should point 090, is it pointing correctly?

On the point to point, to make sure I understand, the way you described would place you 10 miles east of the runway, heading around 40-50 deg.  So you would have to turn hard left to face runway 27.  To get to runway 9, you'd have to turn around and come around to the west of the airport before turning back on 090 to land on RWY 9?

If we wanted to be 10 nm west of the airport to land on RWY 9, then we would place our desired point left of center on the BDHI (as opposed to right of center as in your diagram), draw our line, then move it up to center to show an approximate heading of 010-020?  Then it's a right turn another 80 deg to get 090 for RWY 9.

 

v6,

boNes

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by bonesvf103

[WinOrLose]

4 hours ago, bonesvf103 said:

@WinOrLose

Thanks for the help, and diagrams!

In step 1, I understand the math that gets you 7.5, but where do you get the 60, the 20, and the 1%?  And by a half standard turn you mean a 1 minute turn rather than a 2 minute turn, ie, you round a circle in 4 minutes so you are turning at 1.5 deg/sec rather than the usual 3 deg/second?

The formula comes from the instrument manual 60/X x Y x 1% X is the DME from the waypoint Y is your speed

In step 2, did you get 082 because 090-7.5=82.5 which is about 082?

Correct

In step 3 the ADF shows pointing at near 360 but you said it should point 090, is it pointing correctly?

My bad - the heading would be 090

 

4 hours ago, bonesvf103 said:

On the point to point, to make sure I understand, the way you described would place you 10 miles east of the runway, heading around 40-50 deg.  So you would have to turn hard left to face runway 27.  To get to runway 9, you'd have to turn around and come around to the west of the airport before turning back on 090 to land on RWY 9?

Again my bad correct diagram attached.

4 hours ago, bonesvf103 said:

If we wanted to be 10 nm west of the airport to land on RWY 9, then we would place our desired point left of center on the BDHI (as opposed to right of center as in your diagram), draw our line, then move it up to center to show an approximate heading of 010-020?  Then it's a right turn another 80 deg to get 090 for RWY 9.

Correct

v6,

boNes

 

 

 

[bonesvf103]

@winorlose

 

Thanks so much!  No problem re:  the diagram.  This at least confirmed to me that I truly did understand what you were trying to teach.  The diagrams were great nonetheless.

I'm excited to try this out.

v6,

boNes