BVR Tactics Question

[Kingfish_]

I have a question RE: BVR tactics.

1. When flying towards an enemy, I lock them up, fire off an AIM-120C (I almost always use RWS), but then tend to carry on flying towards my enemy until the missile goes pitbull (I see a T countdown on the HUD). Problem is, often by this point they've fired off a missile at me, so I'm flying essentially towards an incoming missile for far too long, because I'm afraid of turning away too much and losing radar lock. What's the correct tactics here? Should I be flying diagonally towards the enemy after firing, so not straight at them, but close enough angle that I don't lose radar lock? If so, how do I judge what angle towards/away from the enemy I can fly without losing lock?

In real world scenarios, would fighter pilots who realised they had an incoming missile just forget the missile they've fired, even if it hasn't gone pitbull, make sure they've evaded the incoming, before re-engaging? Or would they (if at all possible) keep their lock until pitbull, before evading? 

Any advice on these sort  of tactics much appreciated. I'm getting a kill but getting killed too often.

[Scotch75]

G'day,

The greatest BVR advantage is to get your missile in the air before the bandit launches their missile at you. So, some prior knowledge of the bandit's missile capability is very helpful. If they have a longer range missile than you, but it is only semi-active guidance ( like the Sparrow), getting them on the defensive is enough to trash their missile as they have to break their lock and guidance to defend against your shot. When you launch your missile, perform a "crank" manoeuvre. Turn your aircraft left or right of the reciprocal to keep the bandit locked at the edge of your radar gimbals. This effectively reduces that closure speed, as you are now diverging, but you are still supporting your missile. When there is a massive change in closure speed, that indicates the bandit is defending and will probably turn cold and dive. You can now turn back into them and try to keep your radar lock and be ready to launch another missile when they start to turn hot. Look up bvr tutorials on YT, especially the F-pole manoeuvre. Hope that helps a little.

Cheers!



Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

[Raptor9]

Sometimes "wasting a shot" by launching an AIM-120 early, even though it may have a low probability of hitting the target, is prudent to get the opposing aircraft on the defensive sooner. As Scotch75 mentioned, it comes down to which aircraft type you are facing. If I launch early enough that the AIM-120 goes active and forces the other pilot to go defensive, that buys me some additional time to close the range and follow-up with a second, high probability shot.

As much as it would be nice to have a 1 missile=1 kill ratio, I would much rather expend two missiles against an enemy aircraft to ensure the outcome of the engagement is in my favor, instead of the 1 missile dual that may result in a toss-up. Especially if the enemy aircraft has long-range missiles that do not require continuous guidance for the entire flight, like their own AIM-120's, R-77, R-27T or R-27ET. In these cases, getting the enemy to defensively maneuver as soon as possible is more important than firing a high Pk shot in the first launch.

[Nahen]

The basis in BvR is altitude and speed. If you are unable to accelerate before the attack and attack from a reasonable height, you must defend yourself quickly and run away, or engage in close combat. It's good to know what machine you're up against. I'll give you a hint - if your opponent is F-14, F-15 on high altitude and very fast, don't try to fight him in a typical BvR. He will always shoot much faster than you, and he will be able to perform a defensive maneuver much faster in which he will still have a chance to maintain his speed and altitude advantage. BvR is all about speed and altitude.

[Exorcet]

1 hour ago, Kingfish_ said:

I have a question RE: BVR tactics.

Should I be flying diagonally towards the enemy after firing, so not straight at them, but close enough angle that I don't lose radar lock? If so, how do I judge what angle towards/away from the enemy I can fly without losing lock?

Yes. This is called cranking.

 

You know how far you can turn by looking at your radar. You want your target to be as close to the edge of the radar screen (or azimuth lines if you're not using full azimuth) as possible.

1 hour ago, Kingfish_ said:

In real world scenarios, would fighter pilots who realised they had an incoming missile just forget the missile they've fired, even if it hasn't gone pitbull, make sure they've evaded the incoming, before re-engaging? Or would they (if at all possible) keep their lock until pitbull, before evading?

It depends. If the incoming missile is very close, it would be best to focus on evading it over supporting your missile. Here is a former Tomcat pilot discussing some tactics and providing an example BVR fight:

 

[Aquorys]

On 1/17/2023 at 2:46 PM, Kingfish_ said:

In real world scenarios, would fighter pilots who realised they had an incoming missile just forget the missile they've fired, even if it hasn't gone pitbull, make sure they've evaded the incoming, before re-engaging? Or would they (if at all possible) keep their lock until pitbull, before evading? 

Depends on many factors and has changed over time, e.g. some modern aircraft can hand-off missile guidance to a wingman or other asset.

[ACME_WIdgets]

Besides the Crank, you can also go lower in altitude to slow the oncoming missle's speed and range.

[Lee1]

As with SAMs, once the motor burns out, the missile is essentially a guided glider. Manoevering in the vertical and horizontal will cause it to lose energy because it will need to deflect control surfaces to follow you.