F-5E simpit cockpit dimensions and flight controls

[Bucic]

7 hours ago, Madpie said:

After much mucking around I think the t-38 measurements and the f-5 in game are completely out of whack.

I also tried making the centre panels 146mm wide

and also using your figure of 1 inch between the switches (so I did 6 inches for 6 switches)
None of it really worked out properly

Yeah, the 1" spacing is solid. I can provide some more precise dims tomorrow after the shift. For now

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/318106-f-5e-simpit-cockpit-dimensions-and-flight-controls/?do=findComment&comment=5376913

RL vs sim significant discrepancies - that is known. T-38 vs sim or vs RL F-5E hard to tell. For the purpose of my project I assume almost nothing matches between T-38 and F-5E apart from standardised avionic dimensions.

 

[Madpie]

It looks like the an/arc-164 panel is the standard 5.75 inches too

https://www.columbiaelectronics.com/id195.htm

I found some great ejection seat drawings too but no measurements sadly

[Madpie]

I went on a hunt for ejection seat dimensions and stumbled on this guys incredible website

https://www.scale-print.de/en/tiger-f-5/391-ejection-seat-f-5-tiger-excl-upholstery-up-to-scale-142-as-assembly-set.html

Scaling up the measurements should help, I hope they’re accurate!

 

[Madpie]

I did some measuring in fusion but his numbers don't correlate with the known panel width of 146.05mm

 

His outer width of the ejection seat should be 128.35*4.2= 539.07mm but if I calibrate the canvas to the panels in fusion (146.05) the width becomes 605mm

 

Also with your armament toggles being an inch apart it should be 6x25.4=152.4mm but i get 165 calibrated

 

I really just came here to find the width of the rudder pedals because I'm wondering if I made them for a p-47 (24 inches wide) would they be too big to play if I put f-5 panels on the pit. I think belsimtek might have just eyeballed a bunch of stuff when making this model back in the day so all the measurements are off. Hopefully we can get more accurate irl measurements in the future.

[Madpie]

A seat is getting sold on etsy from and f-5 

nullhttps://www.etsy.com/listing/1070590658/f-5-ejection-seat-freedom-fighter

They say the seat width (im assuming padding) is 43cm which aligns with the canvas when calibrated to the radio width. I tried to email them on their website to see if they could share dimensions but it bounced back. Maybe someone with an etsy account could ask them (long shot I know)

Otherwise does anyone have 25 grand?

[Madpie]

The scale mate guy kindly got back in touch with me and said only his L39 seat is 1 to 1 because he got to measure it up irl. The f-5 one is scaled up from a model measurement.

[Bucic]

Good work @Madpie  !

I need to try those ModelViewer tips!

 

[Bucic]

The weapons panel. Please mind it's a revision different from most you see on the internet.

Max height 123.2 mm

thickness 6.35 mm

max width from the left corner to the right edge 336 mm

209 mm is the horizontal distance between one of the pairs of the mounting holes

 

[Bucic]

Guys... I think that no-nstandard weapons panel is in fact standard but from F-5A

[Bucic]

As I look back I spent some 80% of my simpit time on fixing and troubleshooting that yellow demon. Problem solved and good riddance!

 

[_BringTheReign_]

1 hour ago, Bucic said:

As I look back I spent some 80% of my simpit time on fixing and troubleshooting that yellow demon. Problem solved and good riddance!

 

Congrats on the upgrade!

[Madpie]

I needed a break from designing a viper pit (I finally discovered model viewer grid to transfer the dimensions). The F-5 is so nice to design because its so simple and square. I've never done dzus panels before but I used that guide I linked earlier and found the dimensions for the radio which linked with the dzus dimensions. Obviously they're a bit off with the artwork in the pit but I straightened them out and put the real dimensions in. I figure if you're making a pit you might as well use the right sized panels if it fits well enough.

If you can find me the names and heights of the other panels I'll add them in over time and share the file.

[Madpie]

The rest actually worked out ok once I started a grid system. It was fun to learn how to make panels properly. I'll put the holes in them once I understand more about what toggles/buttons I'll use. Back to viper land for now!

[Madpie]

It would make such a cosy little pit. DO you have access to a cnc machine @Bucic

[Bucic]

@Madpie

Wow, solid work!

I can order paid CNC parts but I do not have a dedicated room. Everything I do apart from the weapons and fuel panels will have to be compacted or detachable and stowable. I'm currently in the process of establishing the best approach for me. The initial was to permanently attach stick and throttle fittings to metal parts of my massive office seat. The only problem is the most disturbing forces come not from the stick but from the pedals. I designed them so they abut on the wall. But the seat is free to roll back AND rotate. A thick plywood panel on the floor may be unavoidable. I'm pretty sure doing away without it is going to keep biting me. I must crack this before I proceed. In the meantime I did more workshop building time than simpit building time for sure

What 3D software do you use? Are you willing to share the STL/STP files? I use FreeCAD.

I'm going to try to dig up the names and dimensions of the additional pieces of the original avionics equipment during the vacation break.

[No1sonuk]

30 minutes ago, Bucic said:

@Madpie

Wow, solid work!

I can order paid CNC parts but I do not have a dedicated room. Everything I do apart from the weapons and fuel panels will have to be compacted or detachable and stowable. I'm currently in the process of establishing the best approach for me. The initial was to permanently attach stick and throttle fittings to metal parts of my massive office seat. The only problem is the most disturbing forces come not from the stick but from the pedals. I designed them so they abut on the wall. But the seat is free to roll back AND rotate. A thick plywood panel on the floor may be unavoidable. I'm pretty sure doing away without it is going to keep biting me. I must crack this before I proceed. In the meantime I did more workshop building time than simpit building time for sure

What 3D software do you use? Are you willing to share the STL/STP files? I use FreeCAD.

I'm going to try to dig up the names and dimensions of the additional pieces of the original avionics equipment during the vacation break.

I'm looking at going for a generic panel I can use in conjunction with my Wathog HOTAS.
Rough concept:
null

A - MFDs - custom HDMI TFT mounts with Thrustmaster Viper MFD buttons.
These monitors are rectangular, so there's some extra space for indicators/gauges.

B - MIP - 12-inch "portable" Multi-touch display.
Main instrument panel (Helios)

C - Landing gear panel - 3.5" TFT Uno shield.
Multi-aircraft landing gear panel - Dispaly changes based on aircraft being flown.

D - StreamDeck
Various functions

E - CWP - 3.5" TFT with built-in ESP32
Programmed as a multi-aircraft CWP.  Layout, etc. changes based on aircraft being flown.

[Madpie]

@Bucic I’ve been learning to use fusion 360, it’s free and very capable. Of course I’ll share the stl. Maybe I can find you on discord

i was in the same boat, when I first got into simming. The pedals fly around under the desk so I bolted them to a piece of ply that I also bolted the stick to. The idea was to flip it up and put it into a cupboard when I wasn’t using it.

in no time I’d bolted a throttle and virpil panels to it and by then I’d chopped the legs off a chair and I was in a sim pit. It’s a bit easier to say goodbye to a desk when you’re in VR. This pit is pretty small and those side panels make perfect rectangular blocks so it’s almost perfect for a modular pit

[Bucic]

On 7/2/2024 at 9:45 PM, No1sonuk said:

I'm looking at going for a generic panel I can use in conjunction with my Wathog HOTAS.
Rough concept:
null

A - MFDs - custom HDMI TFT mounts with Thrustmaster Viper MFD buttons.
These monitors are rectangular, so there's some extra space for indicators/gauges.

B - MIP - 12-inch "portable" Multi-touch display.
Main instrument panel (Helios)

C - Landing gear panel - 3.5" TFT Uno shield.
Multi-aircraft landing gear panel - Dispaly changes based on aircraft being flown.

D - StreamDeck
Various functions

E - CWP - 3.5" TFT with built-in ESP32
Programmed as a multi-aircraft CWP.  Layout, etc. changes based on aircraft being flown.

Looks interesting and practical. Ping me please when you decide to start a dedicated topic.

[Bucic]

On 7/2/2024 at 11:51 PM, Madpie said:

@Bucic I’ve been learning to use fusion 360, it’s free and very capable. Of course I’ll share the stl. Maybe I can find you on discord

i was in the same boat, when I first got into simming. The pedals fly around under the desk so I bolted them to a piece of ply that I also bolted the stick to. The idea was to flip it up and put it into a cupboard when I wasn’t using it.

in no time I’d bolted a throttle and virpil panels to it and by then I’d chopped the legs off a chair and I was in a sim pit. It’s a bit easier to say goodbye to a desk when you’re in VR. This pit is pretty small and those side panels make perfect rectangular blocks so it’s almost perfect for a modular pit

 Yeah, Fusion 360 is free until it gets "it used to be", like Evernote

I'm swamped right now. With the little simpit time I have I bogged myself down with improving the drill press. Which just so happens to be THE most used tool in my workshop. On the bright side I secured a pretty hefty portion of my in-flat workshop needs:

- a proper solid bench!

- complete quiet drilling workflow with ultra quiet bench grinder for drill sharpening - which I'm good at

- quiet sheet metal cutting (razor sharp sheers!) and bending ; spot welder missing (blind rivet gun for now)

- surface plate and basic dial indicators ; height gauge to be 3D printed ; prisms, 1-2-3 blocks on immediate shopping list

With that drill press mod I'm getting some NASA shop concentricity and tightness. One last mod is a base plate JOE (?). Unlike many hopeless souls on the internet I bothered to verify what's the source of the plate giving away while drilling. Internet's tell you to stiffen the column while the source of reflection is at the base of the plate itself. I already solved the reflection to a large degree, but the Joe (?) is going to eliminate 100% of the deflection. It's... just a vertical column running from the end (front) edge of the drill press base plate to... whatever surface is below the plate. Or do you call it (the base plate) a table?

Motor replacement is on hold as it's extremely difficult to find an affordable 0,75 kW 220V motor, contrary to 380V 3-phase ones, which are cheap, in good condition, available in droves.

[Bucic]

 

[Bucic]

The damaged connector was easier to repair than I thought. I don't need the back lighting but I felt obliged to revive it fully. A banana with no back lighting for scale. In reality the light is more of a bright orange and has more contrast at the same time. EDIT: DCS gets it absolutely spot-on as it is indescernable in full daylight.

Edited September 14, 2024 by Bucic

[Deadman]

Nice

[Bucic]

Custom switches for those special cases in F-5E cockpit:

1. Left panel - Bomb ARM

2. Right panel - Fuel balance

3. Right panel - Cabin temp

4. Throttle - speed brake rocker

5. Throttle - flaps slider

 

Alternatives:

Ad. 4. Industrial rotary switch plus a lever / takes lots of space! / step angle matching required

Edit: This is pretty much exactly what I have in mind.

[ ] BUY LONG TO-BE-CUT M4 SCREWS

 

Ad. 5. ..............

continuing from

 

For this kind of work a stock of externally threaded M12 pipe would be useful, to have a ready-made starting point.

Those huge thumb rocker for airbrake and the slider for the flaps are also something I'm going to have to devise on my own.

 

Well, the thread standards don't make it any easier.

Chinese ~11.8x0.75 pitch =~ M12x0.75

Polish/Russian ~11.9x1.0 pitch =~ M12x1.0

Standard machine metric tap 12x1.75 pitch

American MIL standard (MIL-DTL-3950?) "Threaded bushing—0.468 in (11.89 mm) dia., 32 threads/inchKeyway—0.068 x 0.035 in (1.73 x 0.89 mm) deep; provides anti-rotation" = 15/32-32 UNF???

 

 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2024 by Bucic

[Bucic]

Change of plans. Since it all takes so long I'm focusing on most compact items first. This means panels and electronics. The following shot presents all the rotary switches I need. The rest are either encoders or potentiometers.

Edited September 30, 2024 by Bucic

[Bucic]