RealDCSpilot Posted January 27, 2023 Author Share Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) @Hunter Joker @Lurker Try to see it as if you were connecting your HMD for the first time with DCS. Uninstall everything that will potentially interfere. There are already reports that reprojection causes problems with WMR headsets. ED needs to sort this out. For now try to find the best resolution setting depending on your system and image quality settings. However, WMR owners might be in a bad spot for a little while. The reasons are quite obvious. For other VR runtimes, most users wouldn't even notice that something is different. Don't give up, there are more changes coming. It's just the start of the transition. Edited January 27, 2023 by RealDCSpilot 1 i9 13900K @5.5GHz, Z790 Gigabyte Aorus Master, RTX4090 Waterforce, 64 GB DDR5 @5600, Pico 4, HOTAS & Rudder: all Virpil with Rhino FFB base made by VPforce, DCS: all modules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 The sad thing about using Pico4 is we have to talk to SteamVR/OpenXR which means studdering at load screens... VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants -- this is how I fly. We do not fly at treetop height, we fly between trees(TM) YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc9BDi-STaqgWsjNiHbW0fA My simple missions: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/284071-vr-flight-guy-in-pj-pants-simple-missions/ NSRI - National Strategy Research Institution, a fictional organisation based on wordplay of Strategic Naval Research Institution (SNRI), a fictional institution appears in Mobile Suit Gundam UC timeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 20 minutes ago, RealDCSpilot said: . Don't give up, there are more changes coming. It's just the start of the transition. Thank you for the kind words, but I'm so damn tired of Eagle Dynamics implementing half-measures and braking more things than it fixes in the process. DCS is being uninstalled as we speak. I'm so done with this whole thing it's not even funny. The Reverb is going in the box and DCS World is not going to grace my SSDs for a long time. If ever. Specs: Win10, i5-13600KF, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2 Joystick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealDCSpilot Posted January 27, 2023 Author Share Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) @VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants That has nothing to do with SteamVR, it's the streaming forth and back from the mobile headset that get's interrupted by high CPU workloads. Edited January 27, 2023 by RealDCSpilot i9 13900K @5.5GHz, Z790 Gigabyte Aorus Master, RTX4090 Waterforce, 64 GB DDR5 @5600, Pico 4, HOTAS & Rudder: all Virpil with Rhino FFB base made by VPforce, DCS: all modules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 I don't know. Only going with SteamVR giving me this and at least it is not what fpsVR is saying or switching to Oculus runtime / Quest 2 with Oculus OpenXR behave. VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants -- this is how I fly. We do not fly at treetop height, we fly between trees(TM) YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc9BDi-STaqgWsjNiHbW0fA My simple missions: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/284071-vr-flight-guy-in-pj-pants-simple-missions/ NSRI - National Strategy Research Institution, a fictional organisation based on wordplay of Strategic Naval Research Institution (SNRI), a fictional institution appears in Mobile Suit Gundam UC timeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealDCSpilot Posted January 27, 2023 Author Share Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) My experience actually got better. VD had some occasional stutters before the switch to OpenXR. Now the visual framerate is pretty stable. Ingame of course, i don't mind loading screens. Edited January 27, 2023 by RealDCSpilot 1 i9 13900K @5.5GHz, Z790 Gigabyte Aorus Master, RTX4090 Waterforce, 64 GB DDR5 @5600, Pico 4, HOTAS & Rudder: all Virpil with Rhino FFB base made by VPforce, DCS: all modules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 Personal preference. It's cool. When VD for Pico4 can talk directly to OpenXR, which gives no promises whatsoever, it may be better. I guess my first task is get DCS World back to what it was before removing OpenComposite. VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants -- this is how I fly. We do not fly at treetop height, we fly between trees(TM) YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc9BDi-STaqgWsjNiHbW0fA My simple missions: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/284071-vr-flight-guy-in-pj-pants-simple-missions/ NSRI - National Strategy Research Institution, a fictional organisation based on wordplay of Strategic Naval Research Institution (SNRI), a fictional institution appears in Mobile Suit Gundam UC timeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Joker Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 14 minutes ago, Lurker said: Thank you for the kind words, but I'm so damn tired of Eagle Dynamics implementing half-measures and braking more things than it fixes in the process. DCS is being uninstalled as we speak. I'm so done with this whole thing it's not even funny. The Reverb is going in the box and DCS World is not going to grace my SSDs for a long time. If ever. A bit too harsh as decision for me... Consider that we are in a perpetual openbeta, consider that all this changes are to achieve a better simulator (I couldn't understand who, doing businness, try to make the product that sell ...worse. Consider that we, as G2 owner, are to go up with Microsoft bad WMR and HP choice to follow this, consider that until openxr I was unable to play VR in a satisfacotrily way even withthe best (or near the best) hardware (5800X 3D, 64Mb RAM and a 4090... Now (until last patch) wiht a good effort (cause implement the whole OpenXR infrastructure is not effortless) I was able to play at 60/80fps with good frame rate and the graphics maxed out. So, now it is broken? Ok, I will switch to 2d for a bit until they fix it. After that, after the fix, I will be abel to have the same performance without installing and configuring 3 tools and a bunch of settings? Great...I will switch again to my beloved VR. And after that it will come Multithreading and Vulkan and the VR experience will go even better? Ok, time to buy a new higer end visor... And so on... Don't give up, try to avoid the anger direct Your choiche, be like the "water",, flow around and go on... 1 https://www.youtube.com/user/garaganotube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
some1 Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Lurker said: This is all nice and everything but how does it help someone who just want's to play DCS World in VR using a native WMR headset, like Reverb G2? If you did not use reprojection prior to the patch, install "Open XR tools for Windows Mixed Reality", install "OpenXR Toolkit", and start playing with new tools and tweaks. Just do not turn on reprojection anywhere, because DCS will hang/crash. If you used reprojection prior to the patch, go back to stable for now, or run DCS.exe with --force_steam_vr parameter which makes it talk to VR software like it did before the patch, using SteamVR API. Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 I don't care. I'm done with DCS World. I've been here for years and frankly I have better things to do with my time than constantly figure things out to make them work just barely. I've been with this game since before DCS World existed as a thing. The one, and single constant through all of these years has been: One step forward, two steps back and my patience is gone. Good luck to all of you, hopefully you don't end up as frustrated as I am, but if you stick with DCS long enough, eventually you will be. 2 Specs: Win10, i5-13600KF, 32GB DDR4 RAM 3200XMP, 1 TB M2 NVMe SSD, KFA2 RTX3090, VR G2 Headset, Warthog Throttle+Saitek Pedals+MSFFB2 Joystick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealDCSpilot Posted January 27, 2023 Author Share Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) I really get the frustration, but now is exactly the time we were waiting for all these years... I have no doubt you will come back. And i hope you will have a much better experience. Edited January 27, 2023 by RealDCSpilot i9 13900K @5.5GHz, Z790 Gigabyte Aorus Master, RTX4090 Waterforce, 64 GB DDR5 @5600, Pico 4, HOTAS & Rudder: all Virpil with Rhino FFB base made by VPforce, DCS: all modules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
some1 Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 14 minutes ago, Lurker said: I don't care. I'm done with DCS World. I've been here for years and frankly I have better things to do with my time than constantly figure things out to make them work just barely. I've been with this game since before DCS World existed as a thing. The one, and single constant through all of these years has been: One step forward, two steps back and my patience is gone. Good luck to all of you, hopefully you don't end up as frustrated as I am, but if you stick with DCS long enough, eventually you will be. Taking a break from time to time and not making the game run your life is always a good idea. But in this case you can really just add --force_steam_VR to your DCS shortcut and it will make the game run exactly like it did before the patch, using the same tools and settings. 1 Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chichowalker Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 11 minutes ago, Lurker said: I don't care. I'm done with DCS World. I've been here for years and frankly I have better things to do with my time than constantly figure things out to make them work just barely. I've been with this game since before DCS World existed as a thing. The one, and single constant through all of these years has been: One step forward, two steps back and my patience is gone. Good luck to all of you, hopefully you don't end up as frustrated as I am, but if you stick with DCS long enough, eventually you will be. I understand you perfectly. I have spent a lot of time testing and testing, changing settings to find good settings to maintain retroprojection at 45 fps, including liberation missions. I was happy with this config and now VR is broken again. Retro is broken and now, yes, im able to maintain 60 solid fp,s but when rolling I suffer a lot of ghosting and double vision. Normal way to proceed in the openbeta, one step ahead, 2, 3 ,4 steps backward. Hype from MirageF1EE suddendly reduced due to this....this is a naightmare. Come one guys. There are a lot of VR openXR expert people, ask them before implementing things without testing enough.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snuten Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 I did also have problems and DCS would not load the missions, it did freeze somewhere before the map was loaded. The menu and the 3D in there was working. I was not aware about the implementation of Open XR at that moment, but I already had it with OpenComposite and OpenXR Toolkit. I tried to restart a couple of times with no luck. Then I just turned off the headset(G2) and started pancake and loaded the same mission. And it loaded without any problems. Then I quit DCS, started up the G2 again, and it was working in VR again. But the fps was really bad, but everything looked really good and crisp. And the reason for that was that the settings I made in OpenXR Toolkit (ctrl+F2 in game) was reset and I was running 150% SS without any FSR But I remembered my settings in there so I just tweaked it back. I have Motion Projection "Always on" in the OpenXR dev tools with no problems. And it is working so far. Still keeping OpenComposite though since I use it for AMS2. Perhaps it helps someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealDCSpilot Posted January 27, 2023 Author Share Posted January 27, 2023 A new hot fix got released with setting everything back, but still leaves OpenXR available via command line start option: DCS.exe --force_enable_VR --force_OpenXR 2 i9 13900K @5.5GHz, Z790 Gigabyte Aorus Master, RTX4090 Waterforce, 64 GB DDR5 @5600, Pico 4, HOTAS & Rudder: all Virpil with Rhino FFB base made by VPforce, DCS: all modules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Joker Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) And now? More confused... Edited January 27, 2023 by Hunter Joker https://www.youtube.com/user/garaganotube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburne Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 Don B EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealDCSpilot Posted January 27, 2023 Author Share Posted January 27, 2023 @Hunter Joker You could try your old config and it should work like before. I'm keeping the new OpenXR path, it runs really good on my end. i9 13900K @5.5GHz, Z790 Gigabyte Aorus Master, RTX4090 Waterforce, 64 GB DDR5 @5600, Pico 4, HOTAS & Rudder: all Virpil with Rhino FFB base made by VPforce, DCS: all modules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon1-1 Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 I use OpenComposite for the other WWII sim, so I'd prefer a solution that won't interfere. Is that possible to use OpenComposite on the same PC as DCS' native OpenXR implementation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillman Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 @VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants >The sad thing about using Pico4 is we have to talk to SteamVR/OpenXR which means studdering at load screens... I uninstalled SteamVR and launch DCS by right-clicking on the VD streamer and selecting "Launch game...". This runs fine and no studdering on the load screen. I think I also got some more fps compared through the SteamVR runtime. (this was before the OB that release just now. Maybe it's not necessary to delete SteamVR now...?) Maybe there is some downside to doing it this way, but I have not seen it. HW: Intel i5 13600K, 64Gb DDR5, RTX 4090, Winwing Orion 2 HOTAS, TM TPR rudderpedals, Pico 4 VR+VirtualDesktop (VDXR), Win11 DCS: F-5, F-86, F-16, F-15E, FA-18, F-14, Harrier, Viggen, M-2000C, A-10C, AH-64, UH-1, Mi-8, Mi-24, Gazelle, Ka-50, Mig-21, P-47, P-51, Spitfire, Mosquito, Bf-109, Fw-190A, Fw-190D, Yak-52, C101, all maps & tech, SuperCarrier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldcrusty Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 1 hour ago, dburne said: That and for closed beta testing and comm (on all channels): I'm the blue face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants Posted January 27, 2023 Share Posted January 27, 2023 4 minutes ago, Hillman said: @VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants >The sad thing about using Pico4 is we have to talk to SteamVR/OpenXR which means studdering at load screens... I uninstalled SteamVR and launch DCS by right-clicking on the VD streamer and selecting "Launch game...". This runs fine and no studdering on the load screen. I think I also got some more fps compared through the SteamVR runtime. (this was before the OB that release just now. Maybe it's not necessary to delete SteamVR now...?) Maybe there is some downside to doing it this way, but I have not seen it. Well, as you are running in Oculus runtime or can I say it is in Oculus emulation mode? And yes, there is no studdering but it is no OpenXR. It was a bit faster than SteamVR only but a bit slower than OpenComposite. I have yet to get the latest OB up and running with native OpenXR so I cannot tell. VR Flight Guy in PJ Pants -- this is how I fly. We do not fly at treetop height, we fly between trees(TM) YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc9BDi-STaqgWsjNiHbW0fA My simple missions: https://forum.dcs.world/topic/284071-vr-flight-guy-in-pj-pants-simple-missions/ NSRI - National Strategy Research Institution, a fictional organisation based on wordplay of Strategic Naval Research Institution (SNRI), a fictional institution appears in Mobile Suit Gundam UC timeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldcrusty Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 I'm not sure which thread should I stick my happy remark into, this one is as good as any... I fired up the sim after today's fix, did not 'force' the .exe to load OVR but I do have OVR installed (no toolkit, just OVR tools from MS) The SVR box showed up though. I checked to confirm it was using OVR runtime. I also looked MS OVR tools and it showed it installed. Whatever the hell I'm running on, it KICKS BUTT! Smooth and fast. I saw couple of micro stutters on the first run, after cleaning up FXO and meta folders. The second run and after, no stutter whatsoever (about 1 hr hop) So... for now I'm happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikoel Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 1 hour ago, oldcrusty said: I'm not sure which thread should I stick my happy remark into, this one is as good as any... I fired up the sim after today's fix, did not 'force' the .exe to load OVR but I do have OVR installed (no toolkit, just OVR tools from MS) The SVR box showed up though. I checked to confirm it was using OVR runtime. I also looked MS OVR tools and it showed it installed. Whatever the hell I'm running on, it KICKS BUTT! Smooth and fast. I saw couple of micro stutters on the first run, after cleaning up FXO and meta folders. The second run and after, no stutter whatsoever (about 1 hr hop) So... for now I'm happy. Before anyone gets confused by this. Oldcrusty means 'OpenXR' and OpenXR Toolkit. There is no such thing as OVR Tools Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldcrusty Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 2 hours ago, nikoel said: Before anyone gets confused by this. Oldcrusty means 'OpenXR' and OpenXR Toolkit. There is no such thing as OVR Tools Yes, yes, that's what that oldcrusty meant... thanks. That's his tiny contribution to this entire mess. The bottom line is: this cluster.... type of an update is needed on occasions to wake up complacent people like myself and make them dig in some more and learn new things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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