docehrenhoefer Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 I made myself a little free flight mission over the mountains. Rainy conditions at 10°C on sea level, of course flying with all anti-icing equipment on. When I climbed up to 3000m above SL the engine limiter went on. I jettisoned the external tanks I had loaded, slowed down a bit and was able to climb up some more, to about 3500m with snowy precipitations. :cold: Suddenly the engines suffered an akute power loss and stopped working, the only thing to do was to try an autorotation landing. :joystick: Can someone explain this to me? How can I check if the KA-50 is able to fly to what altitude under given conditions, and how can I decide how much IAS is allowed? Thanks fpr your help in advance, doc-e
Nate--IRL-- Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 Are you sure it the Engine anti-ice you have on and not the dust protectors? (same switch) Nate Ka-50 AutoPilot/stabilisation system description and operation by IvanK- Essential Reading
docehrenhoefer Posted January 28, 2009 Author Posted January 28, 2009 ah, and I forgot: I received a message, like "gearbox overheat"...
GGTharos Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 Tried flying at 130kph IAS so you don't overwork them engines? ;) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
miguez Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 Hey docehrenhoefer, Have you tried flying it again? Is it reproduceable? Always at the same point/altitude/time?
Chillspider Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 were you too high Helicopters max Alt is significantly lower than fixed wing what ALT were you at. Dell XPS 630i w/ Dell nForce 650i Sli ,Intel Q9650 @3.0 ,6.0 GB Ram @800Mhz, 2xGeforce 9800 GT 512 MB ,Saitek X52, Saitek Pro Rudder Pedals ,Dell 24" 1080P HD monitor, Klipsch THX Pro Media 2.1 ,TrackIR 4, Logitech MX518 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Chillspider Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 nevermind just seen you said 3500 not sure what it is in game but the real KA-50 i believe service ceiling is like 5500 meters(18,000 ft) Dell XPS 630i w/ Dell nForce 650i Sli ,Intel Q9650 @3.0 ,6.0 GB Ram @800Mhz, 2xGeforce 9800 GT 512 MB ,Saitek X52, Saitek Pro Rudder Pedals ,Dell 24" 1080P HD monitor, Klipsch THX Pro Media 2.1 ,TrackIR 4, Logitech MX518 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
docehrenhoefer Posted January 28, 2009 Author Posted January 28, 2009 ...seems as if I´ve been too fast... IAS about 180 km/h... I´ll try again this evening. Gotta work now.. .:cry:
Pfadfinder Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 were you too high Helicopters max Alt is significantly lower than fixed wing what ALT were you at. Thats right but 3000m schoud be no problem at all. Maybe when the Helicopter is heavy loaded and the oat is very high but in cold conditions and light weightet 3000m is not much. So i would gues it was a pilot failure in some kind. Lt. Jake Grafton: "Fighter pukes make movies. Bomber pilots make... HISTORY!"
docehrenhoefer Posted January 28, 2009 Author Posted January 28, 2009 Thats right but 3000m schoud be no problem at all. Maybe when the Helicopter is heavy loaded and the oat is very high but in cold conditions and light weightet 3000m is not much. So i would gues it was a pilot failure in some kind. ...of course it must be a piloting error of me... only if I knew what I did wrong. If I only knew what (except for flying too fast). All inverters were on, all anti-icing equipment was activated... batterys, inverters were on (AC/DC on auto), ground AC and ground power off, APU off, throttle on auto, dust protectors off, climbing speed 3m/s, then suddenly rh and lh eng limiter on, and just a few seconds later engines out...and gearbox temp failure. The throttle was something like 97%, 98%. The only thing I could think of, that I was moving too fast for outside conditions and that this made an engine overheat. Is there a table of the power characteristics / flight profile anywhere where I can look up at temp and weather which speed is allowed? Thanx
BaD CrC Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 Same here in the "Ossetian Pirates" mission. Got a message on the EKRAN telling me to turn on rotor anti-ice, which was turned on already for some time. I was already in Georgian territory flying at 2000m. Sudden and total power loss over mountains. Had to eject. Only rotor anti ice was turned on, no other anti ice systems. Do you guys think it's coming from icing at 2000m? You guys know this mission. No rain, no snow. DOn't really know the temp though. https://www.blacksharkden.com http://discord.gg/blacksharkden
Frederf Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 The EKRAN message is simply advisory, it doesn't know what's on or even if icing conditions exist outside of its simplistic setup. I would say that it's likely due to engine anti-ice not being on. I usually turn on both at the advisory. It's a lot easier to avoid icing than to try to de-ice once icing has accrued on the airframe.
Pfadfinder Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 The only thing I could think of, that I was moving too fast for outside conditions and that this made an engine overheat. But that would never lead to an engine out, thats the point that makes me wonder. There are just 2 possibilitys why an engine went out, 1. its gets no air, 2. it gets no fuel. Woud be really interessting if you can reproduce it. Lt. Jake Grafton: "Fighter pukes make movies. Bomber pilots make... HISTORY!"
DiabloSP Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 I generally turn on all anti-ice systems at once. If EKRAN tells you to turn rotor anti-ice, you can assume ice will form in the engines and pitot, too. So it's better to turn them all on. I can't think of any reason for what happened apart from having turned on the dust protectors instead of the anti-ice in the engines.
docehrenhoefer Posted January 28, 2009 Author Posted January 28, 2009 But that would never lead to an engine out, thats the point that makes me wonder. There are just 2 possibilitys why an engine went out, 1. its gets no air, 2. it gets no fuel. Woud be really interessting if you can reproduce it. I´ll try this evening and report it! Still 7 hours work to go:crazy:
AlphaInfinity Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 Adjust your engine idle speed. During the startup procedure you normally adjust the left and right engine two notches(yellow handles). For high altitude stuff I adjust both the left and right three notches(all the way to the stopper). Keep in mind that I do not use a long distance loadout(extra fuel tanks) as the weight from the fuel seems to inhibit climbing ability. This may not be the proper procedure, but this is what works for me on those missions that require high altitude climbing over mountains. I am also able to auto hover no problem at high altitude with those settings while other players have complained of over rev warnings. Also, be carefull and watch your blade pitch! A lot of people make the mistake of applying max power for the climb. You need to start your climb almost at farp and you want to maintain a decent airspeed. Proper planning helps to prevent a situation where you start your climb at the base of a mountain. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] |Core i7 5820k@3.8ghz|ASUS X99 Deluxe mobo|16GB Corsair Dominator Platinum DDR4 2666|EVGA GTX980 SLI | 4x500GB Samsung PRO SSD|Corsair RM1000 GOLD|Track IR5|5x LG 27inch LCD| Windows 8.1 PRO
docehrenhoefer Posted January 28, 2009 Author Posted January 28, 2009 ok, ok, stupid me :doh: It was a clear piloting error. I didn´t realize until today, that the main switch for the de-icing is the same as the dust protectors, only another switch position. Test flight successful: with external tanks I was able to climb to 3400, then I jettisoned them and up I went, reaching 5400m with an IAS of 150. "Yessir, I did it! Yessir I learned something! Nosir, I´m not to stupid to learn! Nosir, I won´t forget that again!" :argue:
miguez Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 ok, ok, stupid me :doh: It was a clear piloting error. I didn´t realize until today, that the main switch for the de-icing is the same as the dust protectors, only another switch position. Test flight successful: with external tanks I was able to climb to 3400, then I jettisoned them and up I went, reaching 5400m with an IAS of 150. "Yessir, I did it! Yessir I learned something! Nosir, I´m not to stupid to learn! Nosir, I won´t forget that again!" :argue: Excellent attitude! We're all learning here, so going through these things helps everyone out. Pretty soon you'll be helping me :).
miguez Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 Same here in the "Ossetian Pirates" mission. Got a message on the EKRAN telling me to turn on rotor anti-ice, which was turned on already for some time. I was already in Georgian territory flying at 2000m. Sudden and total power loss over mountains. Had to eject. Only rotor anti ice was turned on, no other anti ice systems. Do you guys think it's coming from icing at 2000m? You guys know this mission. No rain, no snow. DOn't really know the temp though. Yep, that's the EKRAN way of recommending anti-icing, and it means both rotor and engine. Turn both on and you'll have no problems.
Frederf Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 I wonder if the original Russian EKRAN message is less misleading in terms of what de-icing system is prompted.
Maenniskopesten Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 Probably not, but the guys that fly get told what to do before they get in the chopper! :pilotfly: But this thread helped me alot as I had problems with ossetian pirates and "on the other side" in the deployment campaign! Thanks guys! [sIGPIC]https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/img/userbars/DCS_Ka-50_Pilot_UB09.gif[/sIGPIC]
docehrenhoefer Posted January 29, 2009 Author Posted January 29, 2009 Well, it was a lot of training for me either. Until I found that out, I´was able to start the KA-50 without using a checklist any more. And no cheating. So, I´ll have to work on my startup speed, but the order and the procedures are clear.
BaD CrC Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 Yep, that's the EKRAN way of recommending anti-icing, and it means both rotor and engine. Turn both on and you'll have no problems. Yes, thanks miguez. I reflew last night the ossetian pirates mission with all de icing switches turned on. Gor the EKRAN message again several times, but no engines power loss. Well..., not until I got shot down by the georgian flak in the valley :doh: I know have good hope that I will complete this mission maybe by the end of next week. :cry: - First time allowed me to understand power settings for high altitude (crash in mountain), :huh: - second time :cockpit light settings to be able to use NVG (couldn't see a thing, got shot down), :huh: - third time: how to fly without having rotors colliding with each other (crash) :huh::cry: - fourth time: how to avoid icing (crash again) :doh: - fifth time: now I know where the ennemy is (shot down). :noexpression: Can't say I'm not trying but I'm glad this is not for real. :music_whistling: https://www.blacksharkden.com http://discord.gg/blacksharkden
docehrenhoefer Posted January 29, 2009 Author Posted January 29, 2009 Yes, thanks miguez. I reflew last night the ossetian pirates mission with all de icing switches turned on. Gor the EKRAN message again several times, but no engines power loss. Well..., not until I got shot down by the georgian flak in the valley :doh: I know have good hope that I will complete this mission maybe by the end of next week. :cry: - First time allowed me to understand power settings for high altitude (crash in mountain), :huh: - second time :cockpit light settings to be able to use NVG (couldn't see a thing, got shot down), :huh: - third time: how to fly without having rotors colliding with each other (crash) :huh::cry: - fourth time: how to avoid icing (crash again) :doh: - fifth time: now I know where the ennemy is (shot down). :noexpression: Can't say I'm not trying but I'm glad this is not for real. :music_whistling: Thank to the gods I´m not the only one starting with dilettantism and with a slow but steady learning curve. BaD CrC, you have definitely chosen the right avatar photo. :clap_2: I love this film and would be glad if I would find it some day on DVD... Greetings
Recommended Posts