MT first impressions are very good (VR Quest 2)

[Hippo]

As a long-time somewhat frustrated VR user, I had to pop in and say thanks ED for the update and all your efforts.

My first impressions are very promising.  I've only been experimenting for about half an hour, but here's a before / after landing the f-18.  Core 12 has always been where I would hit my limit.  Notice that Core 1 is now at 100%, whereas it was doing very little before.  This was on a v simple (just my a/c) mission with lowish settings as my aim is to achieve 72 fps on Q2 w/o reprojection with spare headroom for busier scenerios.  It seems as if I have more headroom now.  Further experimentation needed to see how high I can get my settings.

I only recently upgraded from a 1080ti to a 3080ti, and didn't get quite as big a performance bump I was hoping for.  My 8700 is due for an upgrade; opinions on what sort of bump I can get going to a 13700/13900?

Anyway, now back to the sim

Edited March 11, 2023 by Hippo

[fab.13]

Hello

1)I noticed that DCS MT version use Open XR for Occulus HeadSet, no choice.

The Classic DCS continue to allow you to use Occulus runtime with shortcut flag ( no OpenXr )

Maybe MT developpement has only been made for Open XR runtime ?
Or Maybe the precedence runtime choice is OpenXr first as a previous patch ?  ( HotFix was delivered to chose Runtime )

2) Some stutter are visible now in MT verssion when looking letf or right side on heavy scene
As described in patch notes.

[KY_Redleg]

Hippo,

Can you share your settings?  Trying to tweak my setup.  I definitely see an improvement with MT, but I think I am missing something.  The clarity of aircraft in the distance is not good.

thx

[Hippo]

2 hours ago, AirMeister said:

Not sure if you noticed but i think they removed the shadows high options. Can you get your aircraft shadow on the ground sharp? 

[Hippo]

Ran another test and raised some settings so as below.  Raised the following:

pd 1.0 > 1.2

visib range med > high

heat blur low > high

shadows low > high

sec shadows off > on

msaa 2x > 4x

I was able to maintain 72 fps in MT all the way to touchdown, but not with ST.

 

 

Edited March 10, 2023 by Hippo

[Hippo]

2 hours ago, fab.13 said:

Hello

1)I noticed that DCS MT version use Open XR for Occulus HeadSet, no choice.

The Classic DCS continue to allow you to use Occulus runtime with shortcut flag ( no OpenXr )

Maybe MT developpement has only been made for Open XR runtime ?
Or Maybe the precedence runtime choice is OpenXr first as a previous patch ?  ( HotFix was delivered to chose Runtime )

2) Some stutter are visible now in MT verssion when looking letf or right side on heavy scene
As described in patch notes.

I've not been keeping up with all of this openxr stuff, so I don't know which I'm using.  I'm using non Steam DCS, I just run the Oculus software first, then start DCS usually from the within the Dash desktop.  I'm not running any flags and haven't changed anything.  Aside from an improvement in performance, things seem more stable and less "spiky", for instance, looking around in ST could often cause temporary drops into reprojection, my (very limited) experience so far with MT has been very solid.

2 minutes ago, AirMeister said:

What shadow settings are you using? 
Whatever i try mine are blocky. It's not resolution i'm using 200% 

see prev post

[Morat]

I'd recommend using OpenXR - or at least trying it. Then again I'm on a G2 so I'm a WMR victim user.

If Open XR is the only option in MT then fine, I was using it before on ST and it gave a noticeable improvement in frametime consistency.

MT is now much nicer. I was hitting an easy 50 frames in MP on Persian Gulf just now while flying a Spitfire at 300ft over an airstrip next to a town (Ground Textures on High) . I need a new CPU! 8 Cores/8Threads doesn't cut it anymore (9700K)

Edited March 10, 2023 by Morat

[jcenzano]

VR G2 - i9 10900k and 4090

my CPU frametimes have been dramatically reduced!!! I was not expecting such a huge improvement in CPU frametimes

need to do further testing, but as an example in the Hornet "ready on the ramp" caucasus missions I have gone from around 20ms CPU time frame to 5-6.

Amazing!!!

I am sure that there will be bugs and glitches that will need polishing with time, but the impact of MT is very impressive.

Good job!!

[AlpineGTA]

3 hours ago, Hippo said:

As a long-time somewhat frustrated VR user, I had to pop in and say thanks ED for the update and all your efforts.

My first impressions are very promising.  I've only been experimenting for about half an hour, but here's a before / after landing the f-18.  Core 12 has always been where I would hit my limit.  Notice that Core0 is now at 100%, whereas it was doing very little before.  This was on a v simple (just my a/c) mission with lowish settings as my aim is to achieve 72 fps on Q2 w/o reprojection with spare headroom for busier scenerios.  It seems as if I have more headroom now.  Further experimentation needed to see how high I can get my settings.

I only recently upgraded from a 1080ti to a 3080ti, and didn't get quite as big a performance bump I was hoping for.  My 8700 is due for an upgrade; opinions on what sort of bump I can get going to a 13700/13900?

Anyway, now back to the sim

 

Hippo, Are you using your Quest2 via a link cable? I'm getting much worse image quality with my Quest2, using the same settings as before MT. The image, especially text is very blurry and more jagged & shimmery.

[Hippo]

8 hours ago, AlpineGTA said:

Hippo, Are you using your Quest2 via a link cable? I'm getting much worse image quality with my Quest2, using the same settings as before MT. The image, especially text is very blurry and more jagged & shimmery.

Yes I am.  I have not noticed any degradation in image quality.

[Hippo]

I know what you mean.  Although this is the first time I've been hopeful for a long time.  Going with my comparisons above something has almost certainly changed in the way the CPU load is being distributed.  It seems as if the cores are all doing more than before (except core 12 which previously seemed to be doing everything) and the GPU %util is down by around 10%.  The good thing is that this is just the start and hopefully things can be improved.  As far as I can tell shadows are working correctly, although I'm an in the cockpit almost all the time guy so external views are something I don't usually bother with; in my first test I was running with low, in the second with high, in both tests shadows were working, the ext screenshot is with shadows high.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Hippo

[Brass2-1]

Has anyone else seen a larger performance decrease with the forced use of Open XR with Quest 2? My frames are dropped by half (72 to 36) in single or multi thread branches using Open XR and with worse visual quality. 

 

If there are any tuning/settings suggestions I would love to try them, the game is unusable as of now. 

[Hippo]

1 hour ago, AirMeister said:

Try this: When you sit  in your aircraft on the runwway, just look outside and check the shadow your aircraft casts on the ground.

 

 

HI - MED - LOW, other settings as above (with MT version):

[Hippo]

15 minutes ago, AirMeister said:

yeah they definitely lowered these , shadows were sharp before patch (or at least a while back they were)

Same is true for in-cockpit shadows by the way. The resolution is lowered quite dramatically. 

 

Ah, ok.  Hadn't noticed, but then wasn't really paying attention.

[Hippo]

58 minutes ago, AirMeister said:

Well it's important. For all we know the performance increase is just the result of graphic settings being downgraded in the patch.

Well I haven't compared shadow quality between the MT and non-MT versions, but I am measuring better performance on the MT version with the same settings.  About to post an update though...

[Hippo]

Time to start qualifying my original post.

I did some further testing using the F/A-18 mission "Weapons Qualification - AGM65E Maverick Practice" (Persian Gulf) as flown in the attached track, with the following settings.  It's when I get close to the island that the GPU starts to work.  With MT i am able to fly low over the island, looking around, at 72 fps without ever going into reprojection.  With ST I sometimes drop into reproj.  However, when banking over the island and looking down at the ground it's smooth in ST but visibly stutters in MT (I believe this is a known issue).

So, although there is a measurable performance improvement, for me it is slight and in practical usage does not make a significant difference; and there are currently drawbacks with MT.  However, this is just the start and hopefully we will see further improvements going forward.

i8700k, 32GB, 3080Ti, Quest 2 - I'd be very grateful if anyone with a similar GPU but much newer CPU or top of the range (e.g. 4090/13900) could fly the same mission in the same way play the track and let me know how much further they can bring up their DCS settings (at the same quest2 settings below) without reproj kicking in.  I can get reproj to kick in (ST only) while over the island if I look around.

 

mt_test_20230311.trk

Edited March 11, 2023 by Hippo

[Steel Jaw]

Well MT all but eliminated my in cockpit stuttering in the Hornet, heck I can even drop the mirrors down.

[Hippo]

36 minutes ago, Steel Jaw said:

Well MT all but eliminated my in cockpit stuttering in the Hornet, heck I can even drop the mirrors down.

Good to hear.  If you'd like to test play my track and whilst low over the island look to your left / right so that you're looking at the ground as it goes by.  If I do this with MT I see stuttering (it's smooth when I'm looking forward), but it's smooth with the ST version.  Maybe just me...

Edited March 11, 2023 by Hippo

[Lee Dove]

17 hours ago, Hippo said:

I've not been keeping up with all of this openxr stuff, so I don't know which I'm using.  I'm using non Steam DCS, I just run the Oculus software first, then start DCS usually from the within the Dash desktop.  I'm not running any flags and haven't changed anything.  Aside from an improvement in performance, things seem more stable and less "spiky", for instance, looking around in ST could often cause temporary drops into reprojection, my (very limited) experience so far with MT has been very solid.

see prev post

Hi, Occulus is OpenXR. So you use it automatically. I run it the same as you.  I am having issues with very low frame rates and Main Thread blocking with MT in VR.  MT in 2d works great and ST Vr and 2d are fine.

[fab.13]

Hello,

1) No problem with OpenXR api, the subject is choice.

But the question is : what about other runtime when using the MT version ?

Because other runtime are natively supported in ST version, in this patch too.
Some people prefer to use different runtime, is th MT version will allow the choice or not ?
 

2) @Hippo we meet the same stutters on heavy scene, not reproduced in ST version ( OpenXR or Native Occulus )

May be we could insert these 2 different subjects ( runtime question and stutter issue ) in https://forum.dcs.world/forum/1144-multi-threading-bug-reports-temp

 

[Hippo]

16 hours ago, fab.13 said:

May be we could insert these 2 different subjects ( runtime question and stutter issue ) in https://forum.dcs.world/forum/1144-multi-threading-bug-reports-temp

Done