How much trim is needed

[guitarxe]

Hi all!

New to DCS, and to WW2 era planes. I've played some other sims before, but those don't compare to the level of detail and simulation as this. I'm starting to realize how much more involved flying a prop plane is compared to a jet like an A-10C or a Su-25.

I am still trying to find some videos regarding general prop flying to learn better, but what I'm trying to figure out right now is how much should I expect trim to be helping. On other (jet) planes, I can do a few points of trim and it can raise or lower my nose, but with the P-51 I feel like even if I roll the trim wheel all the way to one side it doesn't seem to be enough to affect the flight dynamic very much.

I still need more practice to figure it out but already I feel like trim is going to act very differently than what I'm used to in jet sims. Am I correct in that assumption or might I be doing something wrong already?

[grafspee]

Trim in P-51 is rather quite sensitive. You should check special tab and turn off trim assist and take off assists. And check if game mode is off. 

In P-51 main trim which you should use is rudder trim, elevator trim and aileron trim you can get away with out  touching it.

Edited March 29, 2023 by grafspee

[Art-J]

^ What Graf said. Double check if game flight mode is not turned on (it will make all trims inop, even though they're animated) and if you've got any non-joystick FFB controller plugged in (that also used to disable trims many game versions ago but it might have been fixed since then).

Edited March 29, 2023 by Art-J

[=475FG= Dawger]

Trim is not used to fly the airplane.

It is used to neutralize control force required, mainly to prevent pilot fatigue.

Trim is essentially unnecessary in DCS/PC flying. Fly with neutral trim in all axes for a while. After that, use it only to center the stick/rudder pedals in steady state flight.

[Art-J]

7 minutes ago, =475FG= Dawger said:

Trim is not used to fly the airplane.

It is used to neutralize control force required, mainly to prevent pilot fatigue.

Trim is essentially unnecessary in DCS/PC flying. Fly with neutral trim in all axes for a while. After that, use it only to center the stick/rudder pedals in steady state flight.

Could be used for flying, though ;). Do you remember that onboard vid posted on the forum some time ago of a guy doing full left and right rolls in restored Corsair using trims only? Granted, I know it's not a standard way of doing things! 

I'd also kind-of partially disagree with the other part of the post. After all we do actually "neutralize control force required, mainly to prevent pilot fatigue" by trim-centering our non-FFB sticks and pedals, even if these are only meager forces of centering springs while kinematics is different from the real thing. Still makes trimming essential in PC flying.

[scoobie]

Boy, I read "See how it flies" around the year 2000 or so, in early small internet!

11 hours ago, guitarxe said:

I feel like trim is going to act very differently than what I'm used to in jet sims. Am I correct in that assumption (...)

You seem to be correct in your assumption, at least in the part that trimming is a bigger subject in warbirds than in jets. While trimming itself is the same thing, jets don't have those ridiculously big props on the nose - this is where things get more interesting in warbirds Oh, and tail dragging on take-off and landing create some nice effects to deal with, also with the help of trim (e.g. the Pony likes rudder trim right for take-off).

Whenever you move the throttle fore or aft and/or change RPM, your trim goes out the window. That's why when changing from "non steady state" flight to a steady state flight or changing from one steady state (say a long climb) to another steady state (e.g. a cruise), you start with setting your MP/RPM and only then you may think about trimming.
Whenever your warbird accellerated or slowed down - your trim goes out the window, too.
And, on warbirds, the rudder trim is a really big thing. Or pedals, if it's a German bird and doesn't have the trim.

Oh, and while trimming is useless in a dogfight or whatever aerobatics you're up to, you may consider retrimming her closer towards the neutral trim before doing it. It depends on a plane, but you know how trimming works in a sim, with a non-FFB spring-centered joystick. It's not the same thing as in a real plane. You might think about trim if you are entering a dogfight with - for example - a big nose heavy trim. It will limit your aft stick movement, which you may (or may not) need during the fight, or at least it may feel very uncomfortable during a longer engagement.

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by scoobie

[guitarxe]

Thanks for the help all. It was the rudder trim and slippage that was throwing everything off. I was flying with very high slippage without realizing it and that's why none of the other trims seemed to make a difference. As soon as I corrected that, everything seems to be fine now.

 

On 3/29/2023 at 1:28 AM, Art-J said:

 and if you've got any non-joystick FFB controller plugged in (that also used to disable trims many game versions ago but it might have been fixed since then).

 

Is this still a thing? I do have a FFB wheel plugged in (I need it plugged in to use the the pedals as rudder pedals).

[Art-J]

9 hours ago, guitarxe said:

Is this still a thing? I do have a FFB wheel plugged in (I need it plugged in to use the the pedals as rudder pedals).

Not anymore it seems if your trims work as intended now. Glad you've got it sorted.

[Nodak]

It's highly recommended if you plan on shooting straight or accurate at any sort of long range.