VR stuttering only when rolling, especially when looking to the side and fixing a point on the horizon

[mbarb]

Hi,

My Specs: Reverb G2, 11th i7-11700K, 64GB, RTX3080, 2 NVME

I had no problem at all before you introduce MT. When MT was introduced  the only way to play the game is using reprojection.

The problem is on MT and on ST. It is impossible to fly fast and to make quick rolls and turns between mountains and hills everything is shacking when I keep a steady slow roll.

I tried OpenXR and SteamVR and the problem is there. I thought was my Computer and I did a clean install windows 11 revert it back to a clean install of Windows 10 and the problem is there.
The thing is that if you fly straight and level everything is fine. if you pitch up everything is fine. When you roll is when the problem arises 
I found only one post saying about that on reddit but I did not find something in ED forums.

  Is there a workaround on this ? you would be so kind to help me.....

 

[Eclipse]

I have seen the same thing. Performance in VR seems to be worse now than it was when MT was first released. Rolling while looking at the ground stutters very badly. It makes it very hard to fight, constantly losing sight of a bandit because of the hitching and stuttering.

When MT was first released, I got almost completely smooth frames while rolling and looking at the ground with motion reprojection forced on, locked to 30 fps. Now I get 22-24 fps or so, and it stutters badly. 

[unlikely_spider]

I don't recall which it was between SSAO and Global Cockpit Illumination, but one of those two introduced bad stutters when rolling and I figured it out a while ago. Try turning those off and see if it improves.

[mbarb]

I am not using SSAO or GlobalCockpit Illumintation and MSSA is on 2x where previous I was on 4x

I play only in VR and the problem is still there after the last update.
As I said the only way to play the game is to use SteamVR with reprojection ON with 45fps.

 

Kind Regards 
Still waiting for the solution...

dcs.log mysystem.nfo

Edited May 5, 2023 by mbarb

[Graphene]

On 5/4/2023 at 1:42 AM, Eclipse said:

I have seen the same thing. Performance in VR seems to be worse now than it was when MT was first released. Rolling while looking at the ground stutters very badly. It makes it very hard to fight, constantly losing sight of a bandit because of the hitching and stuttering.

When MT was first released, I got almost completely smooth frames while rolling and looking at the ground with motion reprojection forced on, locked to 30 fps. Now I get 22-24 fps or so, and it stutters badly. 

If the specs allow, try to fly with the MT and without reprojection. I don't have enough power to fly ST at 45 on a server with 100 players. But with MT, the CPU is unloaded and this is a more or less compromise option. Of course, with projection it is much more pleasant and smoother to fly, but so far it does not work as it should with MT. 

[mbarb]

Dear Graphene,

It is not about specs cause I tried to lower the resolution settings on HP Reverb and the problem was still there.

The image was awfull lowering the resolution but I did that just to test if the mountains are shaking when rolling.
And I got exactly that.!!

The problem is visible only in the headset while in the monitor is playing perfectly  the same time.

The problem is in MT and on ST playing without a reprojection is no go!!
Please take note the problem is visible only when rolling hard....

Kind Regards

Edited May 5, 2023 by mbarb

[Graphene]

21 minutes ago, mbarb said:

Dear Graphene,

It is not about specs cause I tried to lower the resolution settings on HP Reverb and the problem was still there.

The image was awfull lowering the resolution but I did that just to test if the mountains are shaking when rolling.
And I got exactly that.!!

The problem is visible only in the headset while in the monitor is playing perfectly  the same time.

The problem is in MT and on ST playing without a reprojection is no go!!
Please take note the problem is visible only when rolling hard....

Kind Regards

 

I know. I also suffer from this) I mean that there is a temporary way -> to fly without reprojection in MT (not ST), but with more or less high fps on average (60-90). I have this earth shaking too. But when you fly ST with reprojection, there are times when the power is no longer enough and the FPS drops to 30 or lower. I have never seen such low numbers with MT. We can only hope for improvements from the ED.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Graphene

[mbarb]

Unfortunately my friend, I can not play without reprojection even on MT.

[YoYo]

1 hour ago, mbarb said:

I am not using SSAO or GlobalCockpit Illumintation and MSSA is on 2x where previous I was on 4x

I play only in VR and the problem is still there after the last update.
As I said the only way to play the game is to use SteamVR with reprojection ON with 45fps.

 

Kind Regards 
Still waiting for the solution...

dcs.log 64.58 kB · 0 downloads mysystem.nfo 1.79 MB · 0 downloads

 

But what solution do you need? If we talk about G2 and reprojection = off you need stable 90 FPS all the time in DCS to achieve smooth picture without any stutter. It could be possible with ... 5090 maybe in the future  or turning off all settings to max low in current DCS.

Btw. also remember that OpenXR can natively use a higher resolution (100% for G2 is 3156x3088 pxt)  than you had in SteamVR + OpenVR, so check what resolution you are using for OpenXR.

[mbarb]

Hi YoYo,

I was totally fine with no reprojection and 70-90 FPS. I had no issues I had MSAA 4x and the image was crisp clear! 
I could Dogfight hard without issues
At first I thought my rig had an issue. I remove dcs I reinstall it I format my system and moved Dcs to another nvme disk...etc...etc.

But is not what I want but how it is working now.
As I said, right now you can not play without reprojection.
If I turn off reprojection the game is unplayable in MT and in ST even if I put the resolution settings to even 20%. I am having 70-90 frames everything is perfect until I make a roll....( always in VR).

It is impossible to play hard on this simulator anymore.
 

[YoYo]

So in ST too? Do you use in ST which version of the runtime, OpenXR (forced by DCS exe shortcut) or OpenVR (with SteamVR)?

Do you mean the image jitter effect (so not stutter)?

[mbarb]

Yoyo my friend ....Thank you .

So I  run SteamVR and OpenXR  and I have done all the combinations between the ST and MT.

Yes the problem is there to ST too.
I tried any aircraft and any map.
I am always in Openbeta and always in VR
If I do not enable reprojection and try to do a roll the buildings are jumping all over the place. This has nothing to do with altitude low or high the issue is there and I have 30%GPU usage (lower settings for testing.)

And the problem is there.! I disabled USB Hotplug.! and a lot lot more tweaks

Kind Regards

[YoYo]

So I have the impression that this is not a special problem of the MT version, but rather the subjective operation of the hardware and settings. We're talking about global issues of MT version here.

Can you try SteamVR and OpenVR (so not OpenXR).

How to disable it if you connect OpenXR to SteamVR you can find here:

Example:

[mbarb]

YoYo I understand perfectly what you said I will try it in an hour and I will post the outcome. 
I never said it was a MT issue. I said that appeared after the MT was introduced. I was playing with opencomposite and no reprogression and I had as I said 70-90 fps with no issues at all

Crossing fingers for the outcome

Thanks mate

 

[Eclipse]

In my experience performance is worse now than it was when MT was first introduced. Very noticeably worse, no matter what I do. I get better performance/less severe ground stuttering and tearing in St than I do in MT.  This was not the case when MT first released. At that time running MT, OpenXR, and motion reprojection on, rolling was almost completely smooth, with frames up around 45.  Now fps is considerably lower and not smooth at all, no matter what setting I lower from where they've been this whole time.  There is a problem that needs to be fixed. It's not a good experience at the moment, where before, just after MT release, I was very happy with that first step. Now it's worse than ST. 

I noticed yesterday that my CPU utilization is very low in MT. If memory serves that was not the case when MT first released - at that time MT used more CPU than ST, I believe. Unfortunately I don't have actual data/screenshot available, but that is how I recall it. 

At any rate, a problem was introduced that needs to be fixed. Until then I'll probably not fly DCS much. 

[YoYo]

59 minutes ago, mbarb said:

YoYo I understand perfectly what you said I will try it in an hour and I will post the outcome. 
I never said it was a MT issue. I said that appeared after the MT was introduced. I was playing with opencomposite and no reprogression and I had as I said 70-90 fps with no issues at all

Crossing fingers for the outcome

Thanks mate

 

How does SteamVR and OpenVR work for you then in ST version?

[mbarb]

Here a Screenshot using DCS.exe --force_steam_VR

When rolling the ground jumps all arround. No reprojection on.

Please Note that the Resolution is very low 30% I always flown in 76%

Also note my settings way LOW...

The solution here is reprojection with 76% Steam Resolution

 

null

8 minutes ago, YoYo said:

How does SteamVR and OpenVR work for you then in ST version?

The behavior is exactly the same in both games MT and ST in openxr or steamvr

So it is nothing to do with  openxr or Steamvr MT or ST ( as far as I understand )
I am a competitive player in Dojo and Satal and I remember exactly when this problem appeared. When MT was introduced 

[YoYo]

Your settings are terrible. I was building a computer for my friend, he has exactly the same as you and has in 2600 pxt resolution without a problem in DCS (1728 is lover than natove even). You have something mixed up.

If you have Use Global Setting it doesnt mean that you have turn off motion reprojection. It means only that you use global settings of VR for DCS.

1/ Do test for ST version: use SteamVR+OpenVR and put the log file here.

2/ Also, put the screenshot of your settings of OpenXR Tools for WMR: https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/openxr-tools-for-windows-mixed-reality/9N5CVVL23QBT?hl=en-us&gl=us.

Edited May 5, 2023 by YoYo

[mbarb]

Ok at least I am happy that someones agree with me that my settings are awful!!!

Of course reprojection is not "Use Global Setting"
Thanks Mate.

Here are the screenshots and files you asked for.

P.D is 1.0 in DCS

 

dcs.log SysInfo.nfo

[YoYo]

Notice, it means that you use MT=on here as forced option. If you want to use OpenXR without MT you have to set as disable.

 

If you use Optical Flow in DCS you will notice some anomalies as well if you will have MT=on.

My settings here:

Edited May 5, 2023 by YoYo

[mbarb]

25 minutes ago, YoYo said:

Notice, it means that you use MT=on here as forced option. If you want to use OpenXR without MT you have to set as disable.

 

 

I Did not understand exactly what you said I put your settings but unfortunately I have the same issue. I am flying with 78-80 fps and if I roll the mountains and the ground are lagging extremely!!! 
Did you manage to find any issues from the log file ???

[YoYo]

6 minutes ago, mbarb said:

I Did not understand exactly what you said I put your settings but unfortunately I have the same issue. I am flying with 78-80 fps and if I roll the mountains and the ground are lagging extremely!!! 
Did you manage to find any issues from the log file ???

Log file for ST version looks ok.

Use this entry for MT version: "...:\DCS World OpenBeta\bin-mt\DCS.exe" --force_enable_VR (so not Open XR by Steam VR) so do not open and use SteamVR and check it. 

[Qcumber]

I am getting the same issue. Or at least it sounds like what others have reported. When rolling, and looking sideways (90 degrees) the ground and objects seem to stutter and stretch. It happens in both ST and MT, with SSW on and off. In both openxr and openvr.

Pico 4, VD, 5600x, rx6700, 64Gb 3200. 

[mbarb]

 Unfortunately the problem is still  there.

 

[YoYo]

18 minutes ago, mbarb said:

 Unfortunately the problem is still  there.

 

But your DCS MT in VR works without SteamVR, yes?

Edited May 5, 2023 by YoYo