Cold start / Hot start

[Furiz]

Option to choose hot or cold start before the mission or when picking a slot in MP server.

[SharpeXB]

I think that’s up to the mission designer. Many want to enforce a cold start for a certain style of gameplay. Some allow hot starts for the same reason. But I can’t imagine a reason to mix the options. 

[cfrag]

7 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

I think that’s up to the mission designer. Many want to enforce a cold start for a certain style of gameplay.

Agreed. I believe that @Furiz's suggestion goes into that direction: to allow the mission designer to assign a hot/cold option that carries over to the Slot select screen. There are some missions I wrote for myself where on some days I'd like to cold-start, while on others (or even subsequent re-slots after I screwed up) I'd like to hot-start in the same airframe. Currently, I need to place two airframes in the mission: one hot, one cold. If I had a third 'hot/cold' option (besides 'hot' and 'cold'), it would make the mission easier to maintain, and better in general from the player's perspective. And it would only be available where the mission designer deems it adequate. 

Allowing the players to choose seems like a great QoL item that ED could add to ME, and mission designers retain the right to decide what best fits the mission profile. 

Edited April 22, 2023 by cfrag

[Furiz]

46 minutes ago, cfrag said:

Agreed. I believe that @Furiz's suggestion goes into that direction: to allow the mission designer to assign a hot/cold option that carries over to the Slot select screen. There are some missions I wrote for myself where on some days I'd like to cold-start, while on others (or even subsequent re-slots after I screwed up) I'd like to hot-start in the same airframe. Currently, I need to place two airframes in the mission: one hot, one cold. If I had a third 'hot/cold' option (besides 'hot' and 'cold'), it would make the mission easier to maintain, and better in general from the player's perspective. And it would only be available where the mission designer deems it adequate. 

Allowing the players to choose seems like a great QoL item that ED could add to ME, and mission designers retain the right to decide what best fits the mission profile. 

 

Yes exactly that,

have the option to choose hot or cold but only if mission designers assign that option, if they want hot or cold they are still able to set it like that.

 

For example there are some MP servers with really good missions that are hot starts and I like to cold start the plane. Another example is a cold start server but if you get shot down many times cold starting a plane can get tiresome, so you could cold start once and later on do hot starts etc...

[SharpeXB]

5 hours ago, Furiz said:

Another example is a cold start server but if you get shot down many times cold starting a plane can get tiresome, so you could cold start once and later on do hot starts etc...

Servers enforce this because they want to discourage reckless or noobish gameplay. Hot start servers attract people who are too impatient and just blast off down the taxiways etc. So I can’t see this style of server adding a hot start option. 

[Furiz]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

Servers enforce this because they want to discourage reckless or noobish gameplay. Hot start servers attract people who are too impatient and just blast off down the taxiways etc. So I can’t see this style of server adding a hot start option. 

And that's completely fine, that's why it would be optional for mission creators to choose if they want to allow it or not.

[SharpeXB]

1 minute ago, Furiz said:

And that's completely fine, that's why it would be optional for mission creators to choose if they want to allow it or not.

So odds are, if this was an option you wouldn’t see it enabled. 

[Furiz]

39 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

So odds are, if this was an option you wouldn’t see it enabled. 

That's an assumption, and anyone can make an assumption,

I think odds would be in favor of choice, and it would be enabled.

But nevertheless it is not a bad idea to have it as an option.

 

[Northstar98]

I can definitely see the appeal of a more flexible spawn slot that allows you to hot start or cold start (after all the other F-16 orientated sim has it (albeit not exactly the same but it gives you the option)), why can't we?

However, in certain settings it's desireable to enforce one or the other (especially if there are events in a mission that are time critical, in which case a mission with time events that factor in the time to cold start might be problematic if a user hot starts and vice versa).

[SharpeXB]

Hot or air starts in DCS aren’t a great idea because you’re just relying on the players not to exploit it. There’s nothing stopping anyone from just air-quitting and respawning continually. Especially in BVR this could be a fantastic exploit. Just throw SPAMRAAMs quit respawn and repeat

[Furiz]

1 minute ago, SharpeXB said:

Hot or air starts in DCS aren’t a great idea because you’re just relying on the players not to exploit it. There’s nothing stopping anyone from just air-quitting and respawning continually. Especially in BVR this could be a fantastic exploit. Just throw SPAMRAAMs quit respawn and repeat

Alright,

but all your arguments aren't really a reason not to add such an option, for MP server or missions where mission makers want to have such an option enabled.

[SharpeXB]

13 minutes ago, Furiz said:

Alright,

but all your arguments aren't really a reason not to add such an option, for MP server or missions where mission makers want to have such an option enabled.

Sure it could be an option. But I can’t see many severs enabling it.
There’s one hot start sever I frequent since it’s the only sever that runs stable. It’s full of people crashing into each other on the ground or crashing while blasting down taxiways. It’s a big laughable mess at the air bases. Then those same people will end up team killing you. But hey this style of game might appeal to someone I suppose. 

[Furiz]

6 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

There’s one hot start sever I frequent since it’s the only sever that runs stable. It’s full of people crashing into each other on the ground or crashing while blasting down taxiways. It’s a big laughable mess at the air bases. Then those same people will end up team killing you. But hey this style of game might appeal to someone I suppose. 

Pure case of its the pilot not the airframe.

Still nothing to do with hot/cold start option.

[SharpeXB]

11 minutes ago, Furiz said:

Pure case of its the pilot not the airframe.

Still nothing to do with hot/cold start option.

Try a hot start server sometime and see, they attract this type of pilot. You know what they say; be careful what you ask for you might get it

[Furiz]

wow...

[cfrag]

14 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

But I can’t see many severs enabling it.

That would rather be an issue with your imagination than anything else now, wouldn't it?

In any event, that would be immaterial - what I like about the idea that it gives server admins one more important tool to try and make their server more attractive. Just by looking at the fact that there are cold starts and hot starts (and even air starts) shows that there is demand. Having a way for a server manager to pass this option on to their players when it makes sense mission-wise could make their lives better (no longer do we have to provide cold and hot slots), it would also - since it's an option - attract more players. From a server admin perspective this is a no-lose aspect. Gamewise, both hot and cold starts are already there, retrofitting the option (simply have two instances of the plane in memory) to DCS would be minuscle in effort with a big boost in playability.

14 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

here’s one hot start sever I frequent since it’s the only sever that runs stable. It’s full of people crashing into each other on the ground or crashing while blasting down taxiways

Your disdain for people who don't enjoy playing exactly like you do is well documented. It's not a strong argument, though: the very fact that these servers exist and are populated are a testament to the fat that there is demand for this. The great thing about DCS is that it's many things to many people. Just don't play on servers where you know that you will not like the experience.

14 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Try a hot start server sometime and see, they attract this type of pilot. You know what they say; be careful what you ask for you might get it

Especially when you visit a server where you know that the people there play in a way that you intensely dislike. My significant other dislikes 'problem solver' movies (you know, action movies like John Wick). Taking her to watch one of these will not end well, so I take my godson. Looking around the filled cinema I see lots of people having fun watching a movie that is the antithesis of what my partner believes to be enjoyable. So both can be right: they can have fun if they do it their way, but it's not for everyone. So here, it's not 'be careful what you wish for' here. It's 'mind where you are going for a good time'. Because people on the servers that you love to hate do enjoy themselves. Legitimately, neither is better or worse. That's what DCS is for.

If DCS offers mission designers to pass players the option of hot/cold starting, it would in my opinion, greatly increase the quality of life for many players. My missions would implement it in a heartbeat.

 

[SharpeXB]

5 hours ago, cfrag said:

Having a way for a server manager to pass this option on to their players when it makes sense mission-wise

Sure but in PvP this doesn’t make sense. The basic thing about competitive games is that everyone is playing under the same rules and conditions. So players being able to spawn easier by simply choosing that doesn’t make sense. There are certainly other scenarios like PvE or Training servers where this might make sense. 

5 hours ago, cfrag said:

Your disdain for people who don't enjoy playing exactly like you do is well documented.

I guess my disdain for being team killed or crashed into is just my own personal peeve. 

5 hours ago, cfrag said:

the very fact that these servers exist and are populated are a testament to the fat that there is demand for this.

Everything has a lowest common denominator. The majority of DCS players seem to like air quake, go figure. 

[SharpeXB]

5 hours ago, cfrag said:

Just don't play on servers where you know that you will not like the experience.

Well like I said, this was the only server that runs the stable version, not really my first choice. I don’t run open beta, so the choices in this game for mp are greatly limited. That’s another topic though. 

[cfrag]

Just now, SharpeXB said:

Well like I said, this was the only server that runs the stable version, not really my first choice.

Why don't you run your own server? It will only run things that you want, the way that you feel right. Plus - we are talking about options here that matter most to server admins, and players only secondary. If you host your own server you can contribute to the community, and make everyone's life a little better. And your opinion on these things would matter even more because you are talking from personal experience. Join the club!

[SharpeXB]

11 minutes ago, cfrag said:

Why don't you run your own server?

I have no time or aptitude for that really. Maybe when the dynamic campaign arrives it will be easier for people to run better dynamic scenarios with that online vs building missions. And you’ll see more choices online.