matching key entry from one module to the next

[Red Dog]

is there a way to partially (reads at least common feature) match the controls input from one module to another one?

Let's say I matched all key input from my F-16 cockpit to the F-16 modules but I sometimes fly the A-10CII and many controls are the same.
Is there a quick way to have a maximum of entries to be taken from the F-16 list and applied to the A-10CII list? 

Currently i have to go through each an everyone of them individually in the control UI section which takes a lot of time.
But gear down is always gear down and it might be automated.
I understand specific entries can't really be automated but is there a way to classify the common entries and at least have these match? 

Is there another way to do it straight from editing the lua files?
How do you guys manage this - Is the hard way the only way? 

Thanks 

 

[sthompson]

7 hours ago, Red Dog said:

is there a way to partially (reads at least common feature) match the controls input from one module to another one?

Let's say I matched all key input from my F-16 cockpit to the F-16 modules but I sometimes fly the A-10CII and many controls are the same.
Is there a quick way to have a maximum of entries to be taken from the F-16 list and applied to the A-10CII list? 

Currently i have to go through each an everyone of them individually in the control UI section which takes a lot of time.
But gear down is always gear down and it might be automated.
I understand specific entries can't really be automated but is there a way to classify the common entries and at least have these match? 

Is there another way to do it straight from editing the lua files?
How do you guys manage this - Is the hard way the only way? 

Thanks 

 

Good question. It's been a mystery to me why DCS cannot at least let you define defaults for stick, throttle, rudder axes, which would then be overridden if defined in a specific module. You can save out control settings from one module and then read them in on another module. But this can lead to some inconsistencies. For example, if you copy settings from module A to module B but module B supports some keybinds that are not supported by A then they might end up not being available in B either. At least that's my recollection about what happens when I experimented with this years ago. 

[Bryster51]

Hello,

Im new at DCS and figuring out if what the OP ask for is possible.

I thought it may be possible, however, when using JoyPro software to make a profile for the VKB stick I have. Mapping is different on some aircraft for some button assignments.

I made a list from each keyboard commands on each WW2 airframe in my InputLayoutstxt saved game files and found out that the HASH ID FILES are not uniform across all aircraft types.

This, I believe is the holdback for button assignments and some axis assigments as well.

Hope this info is of help.

[Rudel_chw]

On 4/22/2023 at 3:39 AM, Red Dog said:

But gear down is always gear down and it might be automated.

But assigning control keybinds is something you do just once per aircraft, not sure if it is worth it an automation of this process.

[bfr]

19 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

But assigning control keybinds is something you do just once per aircraft, not sure if it is worth it an automation of this process.

Yeah, its a tedious hassle (i've changed my HOTAS recently so I am feeling the pain right now) but one you mercifully shouldn't have to do on anything like a regular basis.

 

The other obvious problem with having 'set once, fly many' in the settings is some users don't have everything precisely the same from aircraft to aircraft (e.g. your pitch and roll axis might well be the same for everything but not necessarily the case for axis deadzones and curves). And some areas are similar but not the same (e.g. F18 flaps have 3 distinct settings, a lot of other planes are simple up/down).

Edited April 25, 2023 by bfr

[Red Dog]

On 4/25/2023 at 11:42 AM, Rudel_chw said:

But assigning control keybinds is something you do just once per aircraft, not sure if it is worth it an automation of this process.

I understand that argument when you don't have many to do

But consider three points :

1. HOTAS - 3 modules: F-16, A-10 and F-18
Would you prefer to program your HOTAS each time you switch airplane, or would you prefer trying to have 1 stick file for 3?
Hotas are most of the time the same function, A-10 and F-16 for instance shares more feature than the ones that differs: TMS (4) DMS (4) CMS (4) trim (4) etc etc

2. There are more and more users with cockpit of some sort.
We have to program something around 280 switch state for each module we fly. If only 25% of these are common, that saves A LOT of time and makes the process much easier.

Again many functions are similar or identical - they just have different names.
MFD buttons (28 per MFD) - 3 MFDs in average = 84 functions
ICP = UFC = F-18 UFCI= ... Many functions are again similar
Gear - flaps - speedbrakes - trims - etc -  Many functions are the same but organized differently and with different names....

3. When you have multiple joystick devices connected with DX  buttons, like Cougar, Leobodnar, ... By default DCS assigns to ALL the same DX function per BTN
(BTN 1 = VIEW UP) for Cougar and for Leo Bodnar device 1 and for LeoBodnar device 2, ...)
So the first thing you actually need to do when you setup for the first time a module is to actually delete these redundancies because you do not want all BTN 1 of all your devices to emulate VIEW UP (for this example)
That's unnecessary hassle and IMHO default could be set much more efficiently

 

I understand I probably have a vision different than most of DCS users. I am not trying to match my cockpit/HOTAS programming to DCS module but I am doing the opposite:
That is match all common features from one module to another module (like having DMS up for the A-10 the same as DMS up for the F-16. 
And to make DCS keystrokes match my cockpit programming.

That actually ensures I do not have to reprogram my cockpit or my HOTAS each time I want to fly the F-16, the A-10 or even the F-18.
It is much more work before flying, but much less hassle when using DCS.
and doing so I must say I found the DCS keystroke management not quite user friendly when considering all of the above

 

I know automation will not happen - but better management in the idea of being more user friendly should be something profitable for many DCS users IMHO

[Rudel_chw]

22 minutes ago, Red Dog said:

1. HOTAS - 3 modules: F-16, A-10 and F-18
Would you prefer to program your HOTAS each time you switch airplane

 

Why you need to re-program the Hotas every time you switch? DCS remembers the assignments even if you dont fly an aircraft for a long time. I reprogram my Hotas only when a DCS aircraft update adds or changes some of its keybindings.

 

22 minutes ago, Red Dog said:

Hotas are most of the time the same function, A-10 and F-16 for instance shares more feature than the ones that differs: TMS (4) DMS (4) CMS (4) trim (4) etc etc

 

You picked american aircrafts with a common switchology design, but as easily I can pick aircrafts that share none, like the Mig-21, the F-86 and the Viggen.

 

22 minutes ago, Red Dog said:

3. When you have multiple joystick devices connected with DX  buttons, like Cougar, Leobodnar, ... By default DCS assigns to ALL the same DX function per BTN
(BTN 1 = VIEW UP) for Cougar and for Leo Bodnar device 1 and for LeoBodnar device 2, ...)
So the first thing you actually need to do when you setup for the first time a module is to actually delete these redundancies because you do not want all BTN 1 of all your devices to emulate VIEW UP (for this example)
That's unnecessary hassle and IMHO default could be set much more efficiently

 

fully agree, but that is a different topic, isn’t it?

 

22 minutes ago, Red Dog said:

That actually ensures I do not have to reprogram my cockpit or my HOTAS each time I want to fly the F-16, the A-10 or even the F-18.

Honestly, I don’t understand why you need to do that each time you fly a different aircraft? I do it just the first time I purchase a new aircraft (and revise it whenever the aircraft’s command bindings are changed by an update).

[Eclipse]

4 hours ago, Red Dog said:

1. HOTAS - 3 modules: F-16, A-10 and F-18
Would you prefer to program your HOTAS each time you switch airplane, or would you prefer trying to have 1 stick file for 3?
Hotas are most of the time the same function, A-10 and F-16 for instance shares more feature than the ones that differs: TMS (4) DMS (4) CMS (4) trim (4) etc etc

2. There are more and more users with cockpit of some sort.
We have to program something around 280 switch state for each module we fly. If only 25% of these are common, that saves A LOT of time and makes the process much easier.

3. When you have multiple joystick devices connected with DX  buttons, like Cougar, Leobodnar, ... By default DCS assigns to ALL the same DX function per BTN
(BTN 1 = VIEW UP) for Cougar and for Leo Bodnar device 1 and for LeoBodnar device 2, ...)
So the first thing you actually need to do when you setup for the first time a module is to actually delete these redundancies because you do not want all BTN 1 of all your devices to emulate VIEW UP (for this example)
That's unnecessary hassle and IMHO default could be set much more efficiently

 

I understand I probably have a vision different than most of DCS users. I am not trying to match my cockpit/HOTAS programming to DCS module but I am doing the opposite:
That is match all common features from one module to another module (like having DMS up for the A-10 the same as DMS up for the F-16. 
And to make DCS keystrokes match my cockpit programming.

 

The controls setup in DCS isn't completely ideal, but it is miles ahead of some others.  The ability to set modifier buttons and the support for multiple simultaneous presses are a big deal that are not present in some other sim products.  I think the settings being how they are is partly due to how DCS evolved.  Originally, there was only 1 module.  In fact, it wasn't even a module, it was simply its own, stand-alone sim product, the Black Shark.  Everything else has been "bolted on" to that original engine over the years, and the engine itself has been "bolted onto" a lot.  The current efforts underway are I think the first real, from the ground up rewrite of the engine.  So far, so good on that front!

To address some of your points:

First, regarding your points 1 and 2, I agree it would be nice if common features were in some general category that would only have to be mapped once across any aircraft that had those features, but only for VERY general things, like kneeboard, View controls, etc..  And there aren't that many of those things.  I like to have my controls set up reasonably close to how they are on the actual HOTAS, and not every aircraft controls the same/similar function in the same way.  Even something like wheel brakes or how a bomb is released can be very different.  Wouldn't a cockpit user have even more things to consider mapping more closely to how/where the actual controls are in the actual aircraft? Also, if you have to reprogram something every time you switch to a different plane, you are doing something wrong.  You of course have to make assignments THE FIRST TIME you fly a different plane, but no more than that.

Second, regarding your point 3, yes, by default DCS will assign the same functions to multiple controllers.  It isn't tedious to resolve, all you have to do is click the top of the column for each controller (where it has the controller's name) and click Clear Category.  This removes all control settings for that controller.  Do it once for each controller in "All but axis commands" and once in the "All axis commands" areas, and then you'll have no redundant, nonsense, conflicting default button assignments to contend with.  It takes about 30 seconds. 

I would prefer that there were NO default button assignments at all.  They don't make any sense, there are conflicting, redundant assignments, and no one would know what they are unless they looked.  And if they looked it takes only seconds to assign it to the button or axis you actually want it on anyway, so why have all those defaults?

Edited April 28, 2023 by Eclipse

[Red Dog]

8 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

Why you need to re-program the Hotas every time you switch? DCS remembers the assignments even if you dont fly an aircraft for a long time. I reprogram my Hotas only when a DCS aircraft update adds or changes some of its keybindings.

Apologies, I said reprogram but I meant switch the programmin. hence download into the HOTAS
Points remain, you have to manage your stick whenever you switch airplane in DCS

  

8 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

You picked american aircrafts with a common switchology design, but as easily I can pick aircrafts that share none, like the Mig-21, the F-86 and the Viggen.

They all have gears and flaps don't they? 
That's my point. I never said it had to be 100%

  

8 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

Fully agree, but that is a different topic, isn’t it?

Actually not if you consider the whole thing as a keystroke management

 

  

8 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

Honestly, I don’t understand why you need to do that each time you fly a different aircraft? I do it just the first time I purchase a new aircraft (and revise it whenever the aircraft’s command bindings are changed by an update).

To be honest I didn't expect anyone to understand unless they face the same challenges I do. it was just a question to see if there was a better way to manage than what i am actually doing. It seems there is not, so I have my answer
Thank you for taking the time to answer

[SharpeXB]

You realize whatever changes they might make to this system it can’t screw up the mapping for every player who’s already assigned them.

[sthompson]

On 4/22/2023 at 3:39 AM, Red Dog said:

But gear down is always gear down and it might be automated.

You obviously haven't flown the I-16.

[GottHold]

I mean I have grouped most (in my opinion) matching keys together in my template in joypro. If you want to map it out you could use joypro with a template. Also Joypro in the next version gets a feature where, you can add with one click not only the ones with matching Hashes, but also with matching titles.

[Dragon1-1]

On 4/28/2023 at 7:00 PM, Red Dog said:

Apologies, I said reprogram but I meant switch the programmin. hence download into the HOTAS
Points remain, you have to manage your stick whenever you switch airplane in DCS

Er... no you don't. Not even if you physically reconfigure the stick. DCS doesn't download anything into your HOTAS, it takes HID inputs from everything you have connected and assigns them to sim functions.

How have you been configuring your stick? Because it seems to me that you're doing it in a really bad way that introduces a lot of unnecessary effort. Are you, by any chance, trying to assigns a letter to every HOTAS button so they work via keyboard shortcuts?