AMD Ryzen and cooling. Never enough?

[Thinder]

I have been working (hard) at the optimization of my system in order to squeeze the last bit of performances out of it.

Had my share of problems, bugs, stuff that didn't work as intended, made mistakes etc but the last hurdle is one I didn't fully anticipate.

My actual Cooling solution is reasonably good, an Artic 7X for the CPU and X 5 120mm good quality case coolers, I thought the axial airflow going from the from the front through the CPU cooler then out of the case, basically aligned to each other would help keeping the CPU cool and they do.

But just not enough, and to figure this one out I had to start playing around with PBO21 Tuning Tool and CPUID HWMonitor, while running tests with Cinebench.

After updating my BIOS to get rid of the locked 3600MHz frequency, the CPU is now working as it should with the standard Base Clock of 3.4GHz then boosting toward its designed Max. Boost Clock of "Up to" 4.5GHz.

Note AMD disclaimer on this topic:

Quote

Max boost for AMD processors is the maximum frequency achievable by a single core on the processor running a bursty single-threaded workload. Max boost will vary based on several factors, including, but not limited to: thermal paste; system cooling; motherboard design and BIOS; the latest AMD chipset driver; and the latest OS updates. GD-150. 

AMD Ryzen™ 7 5800X3D

First, don't forget that one cannot OC the AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 3D, just Under-Volt it, So I don't really expect a huge gaun in performances from this upgrade, the intention is just to lower the temperature.

Is it worth it? Well, if you are playing between professional, social and family time and want to get your partner and kids in W-E somewhere, you don't need a much better solution than an Artic 7X, it does a good job of keeping your CPU alive, so keep your dosh for relaxing times.

On the other hand, if you became the local anorak and spend most of your time gaming, then reducing the temperature of your system further makes sense.

In my last test (1mn ago), I got this result:

   

4449MHz captured on screen but a temperature Value reading that all went into red at 90.4°C and 91.0°C, in fact they spend way too much time blinking red for my liking.

And this is without the GPU kicking-in which add to the overall case temperature by a fair margin, in most scenario, the GPU Core will stay around 81°C but I have seen it go higher than that occasionally, especially recently when the room temperature was high or the case filters were dirty (check them out regularly and clean them).

So in my case, it makes sense to try to keep the CPU cooler, there isn't much I can do for the GPU for lack of space (2 X Water Cooler?) but here is my solution:

Artic Liquid Freezer II 120

It can be mounted at the back of the case, with two 120mm fans, this would go some way to reduce both CPU and case temperature.

Your thoughts?

Edited May 28, 2023 by Thinder

[Beirut]

4 hours ago, Thinder said:

Your thoughts?

 

 

Looks complicated.

 

I'm near the edge of what I can do on my AM4 platform and going to a 5800X3D is pretty much the last thing I can do. As it is my rig runs pretty cool with a low wattage CPU (65W) and GPU(200W). Do I really need a fancy cooler like that for a 580X3D or can I get away with an air cooler?

 

I'd like to just use the wraith Prism cooler that came with my 3700X but apparently that's not enough.

[Thinder]

1 minute ago, Beirut said:

 

Looks complicated.

 

I'm near the edge of what I can do on my AM4 platform and going to a 5800X3D is pretty much the last thing I can do. As it is my rig runs pretty cool with a low wattage CPU (65W) and GPU(200W). Do I really need a fancy cooler like that for a 580X3D or can I get away with an air cooler?

 

I'd like to just use the wraith Prism cooler that came with my 3700X but apparently that's not enough.

From my PoV it depends on your own need, not a standard at all, your case might be better suited to cooling, or your Motherboard and a lot of other things can affect the results, So what I am doing now is just fine tuning my rig to squeeze the very last bit of performance I can out of it and so far I get excellent results at high settings in DCS-MT in VR.

I'm just not too happy seeing my CPU temperature creeping in the red zone even if it's just blinks.

I'm testing my rig with different Maximum GPU Frequencies so as to see how my CPU Cores reacts to those changes, I post my results in this topic.

[Beirut]

1 hour ago, Thinder said:

From my PoV it depends on your own need, . . . 

 

My only need for a good rig is DCS. Performance in any other game I spend a few minutes in is inconsequential. 

 

1 hour ago, Thinder said:

I'm just not too happy seeing my CPU temperature creeping in the red zone even if it's just blinks.

 

That's one reason I may wait and put together an AM5 rig with a 7700 in a few months. Runs at 65W, not to hot, and comes with a cooler. And though it may not be super cutting edge, it's certainly good enough. Good enough for me anyway.

[Thinder]

41 minutes ago, Beirut said:

My only need for a good rig is DCS. Performance in any other game I spend a few minutes in is inconsequential.

Well it's your assessment, right mine is that DDR5 systems are relying on an immature technology which doesn't have the equivalent of the DDR4 B.die and since AMD designed their X3D serie for lower latency, I'll wait until someone comes up with better RAM.

Right now I am finishing to set up my system and I believe that there is still more performance to get from it, I don't feel the need to swap to DDR5 even if I had the budget, and I'm not sure that bang for bucks I would be able to get the same level of performances from a DDR5 system...

Quote

That's one reason I may wait and put together an AM5 rig with a 7700 in a few months. Runs at 65W, not to hot, and comes with a cooler. And though it may not be super cutting edge, it's certainly good enough. Good enough for me anyway.

Whatever suits your need, I don't advocate one system or another for other players, I share my experience for those interested and considering the good experience I had with my EVGA GTX 1080Ti, I'm not shy about getting an NVIDIA GPU if there is something that good in the range i'll be looking for when I decide to upgrade this one.

The problem was for me to get a system running DCS in VR at good pace with good visuals and I got it now, with a GPU that was £450 cheaper than the cheapest 4090 and it gives me what I wanted, so all in all this justify my choice to stick to DDR4 and go all AMD...

Edited May 28, 2023 by Thinder

[SkateZilla]

The Ryzen 7's are designed to Run at 95 Celcius, the System will automatically make that the target.

The only way to get super low Load temps is to remove the IHS, the IHS is nearly twice as thick as the previous gen.

[Thinder]

15 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

The Ryzen 7's are designed to Run at 95 Celcius, the System will automatically make that the target.

The only way to get super low Load temps is to remove the IHS, the IHS is nearly twice as thick as the previous gen.

Thanks mate.

My system isn't getting anywhere near this temperature but I am trying to gain anyway, I'll swap one or more of my case fan for Noctuas with 102,1 m³/h from the actual 94,2 m³/h, every little bit helps...

All in all I am trying to keep the whole system cooler, the solution I used up to now with the 5600X and 1080Ti (mix of high airflow and low pressure) if it worked is now limited and even if my GPU is cooling rather well, I'd prefer to have more headroom especially since I really O.Ced my GPU now...

[edmuss]

My 5800x3D is on air (thermalright truespirit 140 with a bracket that I hacked together to suit AM4) and peaks at about 74°C in DCS with 30°C room ambient and -25mv PBO2tuner.
10 minutes of cinebench gets it up to 76°C, much above that and mine starts to thermally throttle; if it stays mid 70s then it pegs all cores at 4.45ghz constantly.

I have used this heatsink since my i5 2500k and it's been superb!

[SkateZilla]

Ryzen 1000,2000,3000,5000 / AM4 is different than Ryzen 7000 and AM5.

AM5 Ryzen is designed to target 95C

[BitMaster]

I honestly wouldn't call it "by design" as no one with options would do it THAT way. They haven't done such nonsense before, why should they, and won't repeat it if they have OPTIONS.

The thermal density of 5nm , AM4 cooler compatibility ( thicker IHS ), 3D-Cache etc. take their toll, they took many of the options to stay below the said temp.

in my eyes, this is somehow the same stop-gap solution as Intels Big-Little approach. No way they would have done that if their design allowed 16p cores w/o cooking off.

 

They give it a fancy name or say it's by design and we shall believe it.

It's nothing but a shortcoming in true bold words

 

Edited May 31, 2023 by BitMaster

[edmuss]

2 hours ago, SkateZilla said:

Ryzen 1000,2000,3000,5000 / AM4 is different than Ryzen 7000 and AM5.

AM5 Ryzen is designed to target 95C

But he has a 5800x3D doesn't he?

[Thinder]

On 5/31/2023 at 10:25 PM, edmuss said:

But he has a 5800x3D doesn't he?

In any case, the better the cooling the better the performances.

 

Recommended Cooler:Liquid cooler recommended for optimal performance. Max. Operating Temperature (Tjmax) 90°C

Perhaps watercooling the CPU would be an overkill but my case cooling was set for an 1080Ti and 5600X, it needs more airflow to keep a good headroom, so the 2 low pressure Noctua NF-A12x25 f12-industrialppc and one NF-A12x15 are gonna go and be replaced by high airflow NF-A12x25 that's 8.5% and 2 X 20.82% more airflow respectively.

I use three 120 X 15 fans because 120 X 20mm wouldn't fit behind the GPU or at the bottom of the case, but other than that I'm not limited to thin fans and can upgrade 3 of them, now that my motherboard works perfectly, I don't need a thin fan aligned with PCI_E2, the GPU can stay where it is and get more airflow from this fan.

Here is my cooling configuration, there are no fans at the top, and the vertical 120mm on the right, the second, third from the top and case bottom fans are thin 120 X 15, the two other fans are low pressure and feed/exhaust the CPU cooler airflow, the bottom fan is aligned to the opening in the case, closer to the vertical fan.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Thinder

[edmuss]

I don't have a case*, perhaps that's your problem

*It's a motherboard tray screwed to the wall with no top or sides so it's open to ambient. The only fan other than the CPU is a 140mm thermalright pulling cooler air up into the PSU and GPU.