cannot reproduce New radar functions cause a lot of stuttering in VR - latest OB

[DD_Friar]

Salute guys,

Although I am a pretty much exclusive Apache pilot and can not comment experiencing your issues, I have some guys in our squad that do get stutters and frame rate issues flying F16 a lot so look out for threads like this with interest on their behalf.

What might be interesting here is another thread I linked to them about where using the repair feature did not fix stutters but a clean install did. I know it is a big step to take and not to be considered lightly, but thought I would highlight it in case you guys were not aware. I can not report back to say if it did the trick for my squad mates as I don't think they have gone for it yet.

 

[Flappie]

@Match  Please attach a short DCS track, as you already know, your options.lua (from Saved Games/DCS.../Config) and the dcs.log generated while you reproduce the issue.

[Match]

14 minutes ago, Flappie said:

@Match  Please attach a short DCS track, as you already know, your options.lua (from Saved Games/DCS.../Config) and the dcs.log generated while you reproduce the issue.

Thanks for the quick feedback @Flappie!
Yes i was in mind to do all those things as soon as i will come back to home. 
About the dcs.log do you prefer a standard log or the version with the additional debug as it is explained here? https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/support/faq/support_ticket/
I'll attach also the DxDiag file and a video clip of the issue shooted by external source, obviously about the same test of the dcs.log and track. 
Least but not last, can be the memory dump file useful? 

Thanks again!

[Flappie]

I have no use of memory dumps. The dxdiag log can prove useful, indeed.

I rarely use the debug log myself, but when we don't know what we're looking for, it's a good idea to use it, yes.

[Match]

4 hours ago, Flappie said:

I have no use of memory dumps. The dxdiag log can prove useful, indeed.

I rarely use the debug log myself, but when we don't know what we're looking for, it's a good idea to use it, yes.

Ok here there are all the file requested... and a couple more...
I know you told me that you don't need the mini-dump, but I preferred to do it anyway in case some developer might need it if the debugging were to be more complex.
So we have all the files related to the same track, log, etc... maybe no need, but if we need them we have them.

The video clip and the minidump were too large to be uploaded here, so i put them on Google Drive: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-fYTvpKGSGjqZxmPGYFTA0UV1o_AOvnm?usp=sharing

Stuttering is clearly visible in the video clip
...and excuse me, I know it's 5 minutes of clip, but I also wanted to show you the loading screen which had been slowing down a lot lately, although while making the video it seemed faster than the last few times. Of course you can go ahead... but all stuff can be useful, right?

Thanks again. I'll be here if i can help in some way.

dcs.log Process.txt track.trk DxDiag24_08_23.txt options.lua

[Temetre]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb DD_Friar:

Salute guys,

Although I am a pretty much exclusive Apache pilot and can not comment experiencing your issues, I have some guys in our squad that do get stutters and frame rate issues flying F16 a lot so look out for threads like this with interest on their behalf.

What might be interesting here is another thread I linked to them about where using the repair feature did not fix stutters but a clean install did. I know it is a big step to take and not to be considered lightly, but thought I would highlight it in case you guys were not aware. I can not report back to say if it did the trick for my squad mates as I don't think they have gone for it yet.

 

Sorry, in that post I was found I was just being kinda dumb and unintentionally hand updated the game, because i used the MT exe.

So my issues mightve been just fixed by finally having the first update since 1.5 month with the re-download.

 

That said, there was a lot of pretty serious performance and loading issues, which plagued my experience for a while, that got fixed with that. Like 2 minute loading times and stutter-issues had been a thing for me for a long time. Actually forgot how much better and faster the game ran at the start, until I did the reinstall.

So im not sure, if it was really just an update that fixed everything, but sadly I cant tell.

Edited August 25, 2023 by Temetre

[Match]

On 8/25/2023 at 2:57 AM, Temetre said:

Sorry, in that post I was found I was just being kinda dumb and unintentionally hand updated the game, because i used the MT exe.

So my issues mightve been just fixed by finally having the first update since 1.5 month with the re-download.

 

That said, there was a lot of pretty serious performance and loading issues, which plagued my experience for a while, that got fixed with that. Like 2 minute loading times and stutter-issues had been a thing for me for a long time. Actually forgot how much better and faster the game ran at the start, until I did the reinstall.

So im not sure, if it was really just an update that fixed everything, but sadly I cant tell.

 

Good morning guys, I wanted to try again as @Temetresuggested, so last night I uninstalled everything, deleted every possible trace of dcs from my pc. After that I downloaded everything again. 
This morning, before going to the office, I was able to try an instant action by running ST , without going to change any settings. Obviously not having set the controls either, I was able to try very very little, I hope to be able to give you more accurate feedback this evening. What I observed was that it definitely loaded faster, but again I had a couple of brief stutters. I will update you as soon as I have done some more testing.

In the meantime, does anyone have any news on this? Any users who have been able to correct anything?  @Flappie have you had a chance to verify those files? 

[Match]

Here we are again. I ran the new dcs installation and something has changed, but not for the better.
Now the stutters are definitely lighter, perhaps more frequent though. They are no longer affected by the state of the radar. They are no longer limited to F18, I now have them on all modules. 

I have tried uninstalling Afterburner, running DCS without OpenTrack, and reinstalling the Nvidia drivers... 

nothing... I lost all hope... below I attach the logs and tracks I made today, there are a couple of videos also at this link: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-hWi1r7fmCTdjqBh9QFbqT2tqjNm0Zz3?usp=drive_link

If you have any suggestions I would appreciate it, otherwise I think I will format the whole thing for the umpteenth time. Although this would be the fourth time I've formatted the pc for problems with DCS, each time it's fine for the first couple of months, then after a few updates it gets ruined again and you never know why... 

I don't know, any help? 

track01_09_23_003.trk dcs_002.log track01_09_23.trk track01_09_23_002.trk dcs.log.old dcs003.log track01_09_23_MB339.trk

[Flappie]

Hi @Match. I've just watched your initial  video. It takes 135 seconds for your PC to load the Caucasus Free flight mission. That's a lot, considering DCS is installed on your system NVMe drive (which has a lot of free space and is supposed to be fast). I have a 2.5" SSD drive and my PC loads the same mission way faster.

I suggest we start from here. Then maybe your issue with the radar will be gone. We'll see.

Possible culprits for such a slow loading time:

• You don't seem to have any HDD on your PC. That could have been a problem, especially if the Windows pagefile was stored on a HDD.
• Your CPU is a very good one (5800X). I'm pretty sure it is not responsible for slow loading times.
• Your PC has as much RAM as mine. I think we can rule that one out too.
• Maybe your Lexar NVMe drive is ill-configured in the BIOS or installed on a slow slot, or needs a firmware udpate. Before you do anything, you should monitor its speed. Use CrystalMark, test, then post a screenshot of the results here.

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Flappie

[Match]

1 hour ago, Flappie said:

Hi @Match. I've just watched your initial  video. It takes 135 seconds for your PC to load the Caucasus Free flight mission. That's a lot, considering DCS is installed on your system NVMe drive (which has a lot of free space and is supposed to be fast). I have a 2.5" SSD drive and my PC loads the same mission way faster.

I suggest we start from here. Then maybe your issue with the radar will be gone. We'll see.

Possible culprits for such a slow loading time:

• You don't seem to have any HDD on your PC. That could have been a problem, especially if the Windows pagefile was stored on a HDD.
• Your CPU is a very good one (5800X). I'm pretty sure it is not responsible for slow loading times.
• Your PC has as much RAM as mine. I think we can rule that one out too.
• Maybe your Lexar NVMe drive is ill-configured in the BIOS or installed on a slow slot, or needs a firmware udpate. Before you do anything, you should monitor its speed. Use CrystalMark, test, then post a screenshot of the results here.

 

 

hi @Flappie, here are the cristal mark results. I've done the tests for all my drive so we can compare the results (the slower one is the Sata SSD, the page file is set on the F: Drive). 
In my previous message i forgot to mention that with the new dcs installation the loading times got much faster, but as i said the stutter dynamics changed and it seem now it is no more related to the radar. Indeed now it does with all modules, although it seems to have really changed the type of stutter, as you can see at the link I posted earlier

1 hour ago, Match said:

Here we are again. I ran the new dcs installation and something has changed, but not for the better.
Now the stutters are definitely lighter, perhaps more frequent though. They are no longer affected by the state of the radar. They are no longer limited to F18, I now have them on all modules. 

I have tried uninstalling Afterburner, running DCS without OpenTrack, and reinstalling the Nvidia drivers... 

nothing... I lost all hope... below I attach the logs and tracks I made today, there are a couple of videos also at this link: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1-hWi1r7fmCTdjqBh9QFbqT2tqjNm0Zz3?usp=drive_link

If you have any suggestions I would appreciate it, otherwise I think I will format the whole thing for the umpteenth time. Although this would be the fourth time I've formatted the pc for problems with DCS, each time it's fine for the first couple of months, then after a few updates it gets ruined again and you never know why... 

I don't know, any help? 

track01_09_23_003.trk 1.89 MB · 1 download dcs_002.log 60.84 kB · 1 download track01_09_23.trk 5.48 MB · 1 download track01_09_23_002.trk 2.38 MB · 1 download dcs.log.old 43.83 kB · 1 download dcs003.log 49.56 kB · 1 download track01_09_23_MB339.trk 472.83 kB · 1 download

Thanks again

Edited September 1, 2023 by Match

[Flappie]

Thank you. It seems that your NVMe C : drive is perfectly fine! (and others as well, your E : drive being a 2.5" SSD)

I have another idea. Maybe your antivirus software is playing you tricks. Add the "C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta" folder as an exception in your antivirus (even if that's default Windows Defender) and see if that changes anything.

And if you're still having long loading times after this, try updating your GPU driver (I had such an issue after I swiched from W10 to W11 - I solved it by reinstalling my GPU driver).

Edited September 1, 2023 by Flappie

[Match]

4 minutes ago, Flappie said:

Thank you. It seems that your NVMe C : drive is perfectly fine! (and others as well, your E : drive being a 2.5" SSD)

I have another idea. Maybe your antivirus software is playing you tricks. Add the "C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta" folder as an exception in your antivirus (even if that's default Windows Defender) and see if that changes anything.

And if you're still having long loading times after this, try updating your GPU driver (I had such an issue after I swiched from W10 to W11 - I solved it by reinstalling my GPU driver).

 

I have already listed DCS as a Windows defender exclusion long ago.
Regarding the video drivers I removed and reinstalled them just tonight before posting on the forum.
 

[Temetre]

@Match Hm, that looks frustrating af. My bet is some bug/memory leak in DCS, but who knows. Its probably worth checking if your memory is fine?

1. Try Memtest64, thats a simple software that checks your RAM for errors. I once or twice had broken RAM chips, and memory-testers instantly found them.

2. I imagine you also got software for your SSDs? They usually come with specific software from the manufacturer, like "Kingston SSD Manager" or "Samsung Magician". If you havent run that, do it so it can check for damaged cells.

 

Another thing is, your VRAM might be full when playing DCS. I dont think that should cause stutters and loading issues as severe as this, but its worth a try. Your 3080 is a fast GPU, but a bit limited in memory with only 10GB of VRAM. And DCS really loves to gobble up as much memory as possible.

Easiest way to lower memory usage is just to lower textures. Imo just set the first two texture settings to low for a test run. If you still got issues, make sure youre using less than 10gb GPU memory.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Temetre

[Match]

2 hours ago, Temetre said:

@Match Hm, that looks frustrating af. My bet is some bug/memory leak in DCS, but who knows. Its probably worth checking if your memory is fine?

1. Try Memtest64, thats a simple software that checks your RAM for errors. I once or twice had broken RAM chips, and memory-testers instantly found them.

2. I imagine you also got software for your SSDs? They usually come with specific software from the manufacturer, like "Kingston SSD Manager" or "Samsung Magician". If you havent run that, do it so it can check for damaged cells.

 

Another thing is, your VRAM might be full when playing DCS. I dont think that should cause stutters and loading issues as severe as this, but its worth a try. Your 3080 is a fast GPU, but a bit limited in memory with only 10GB of VRAM. And DCS really loves to gobble up as much memory as possible.

Easiest way to lower memory usage is just to lower textures. Imo just set the first two texture settings to low for a test run. If you still got issues, make sure youre using less than 10gb GPU memory.

 

Thanks @Temetre, in this days I’ve done some stability test for every parts of the pc with OCCT and all seems stable. Now I’m running memtest64 as you suggested, I’ll keep you updated… and it just crashed out right now while I’m writing this message on my smartphone…  

I’m going to try again.. but can this be a clue? 
 

EDIT: Ok the test is running from an half of hour and so far it has found no errors

Edited September 2, 2023 by Match

[Temetre]

Crash could be a clue or could be nothing. But if the test doesnt find errors... its probably not the memory.

Tbh I cant really thing of more things to try.

[Match]

3 hours ago, Temetre said:

Crash could be a clue or could be nothing. But if the test doesnt find errors... its probably not the memory.

Tbh I cant really thing of more things to try.

I still find it hard to believe, but this is the third time I've started DCS and it seems to be running perfectly. What did I do? I DON'T HAVE A F*****G CLUE!
The only two things I have done since the last message were, do the memory test and do a CMOS Clear.

And why did I do the CMOS reset?
Because as I had mentioned a while ago I had done a BIOS update, only today I notice that the power button led was not lighting up anymore, the pc was booting normally but the led was not going. Now, the last time I had opened the bios and was setting the boot priority my cat walked on my keyboard, I thought, didn't he disable it somewhere? I looked through the settings but I don't think there is such a function, the fact is that when in doubt, since everything was left default except the boot sequence and fan curves, I thought I'd give it a reset which never hurts.

Parenthetical opening: the stuttering problem had appeared long before the bios update

To be clear and to help anyone experiencing this problem: 

the radar-related stuttering and exclusive to the F18 I strongly suspect disappeared with the latest uninstall and reinstall of DCS. 
The stuttering I experienced later was of a different type and no longer related to the radar so I don't know what it was caused by but, at least for now, with the operations described it seems to have disappeared.

Guys, thanks for your patience and help, you are great. I hope this issue won't happen again so we can just think about flying and having fun together.

PS: the power button LED is probably gone, the blue LEDs do this sometimes

[Gryzor]

On 7/24/2023 at 12:21 AM, Gryzor said:

I will change all my PC in the next week (appart of my 4090 wich it would be mantain, I will have a new CPU 7800X3D, new 64GB DDR5 6000mhz CL30, new 2xSSD 990PRO, new W10...) so I would test again. What it is clear at least in my case or my system (SSD, 32GB DDR4 3600mhz, 5900X... high end PC) is it that no stutters are with previous versions. Thanks NineLine for your quick reply.

 

As I said in july, I updated ALL components of my PC --> NEW 7800X3D, 64GB DDR5 6000 mhz CL30, 2xSSD 990PRO.

Testing now with my new PC (only keep 4090... ), the stutters stills remains with radar AA ON (F-16 and F-18), but those stutters are not so huge. I reinstalled everything W10, DCS from scrach. Radar ON still make stutterings (I repeat, not so huge, but quite noticeable, especially above 100 fps - 2D - or in VR). Previous patches are smooth as silk with NO radar AA hit in FPS!

Some bug has been introduced in the latests patches. I believe that AA radar now try to scan every building or every object in terrain, causing CPU or SSD constant access ... this is not normal. Maybe for maximum realism ED tweak radar functionality ... (somo notes in the lates changelogs speaks about some fixes for radar not detecting trought building...) BUT ED, please... you have to make some concessions in realism vs sim performance. Considering even STABLE version with these issues, not open beta. IMHO it´s not important if you can detect a plane that is behind a tree or builing, specially considering that such "feature" or "fix" will bring worse performance or sutters in the sim... thats not relevant. In addition, planes normally does not hide behing a tree or building...

Please ED optimize the sim or fix this bug asap in F-16 or F-18, stuttering at low level with AA radar ON is not an option. Thnks.

Edited September 3, 2023 by Gryzor

[Gryzor]

Please Flappie can you look again at this? as I stated in my last post, stutters are not so huge (even minimal), BUT noticeable with AA radar (specially the first loading of a terrain).

[Flappie]

If you have a fresh and short DCS track, I can recheck, of course. Please also attach your Export.lua (from Saved Games/DCS.../Scripts).

[Gryzor]

4 hours ago, Flappie said:

If you have a fresh and short DCS track, I can recheck, of course. Please also attach your Export.lua (from Saved Games/DCS.../Scripts).

Thanks, I dont have Export.lua file in my DCS Seved game folder located in \Scripts.

As I said, stutter with my new PC from august is minimal (its like a "microstutter" or frame drop...), the performance graph most times show spikes specially with radar ON and the first time you laod a map (you have to reset PC entirelly... to clear cache memory).

[Gryzor]

Just to report.... F-16 radar AA stutter is solved. There is something introduced in the code in latest pathes.

BUT F-18 AA radar stutters is still happen... please review code introduced in F-16 AA radar just for fix this fps issue... thanks.

[Gryzor]

Anyone could review this again??? F-16 radar AA stutter was solved. F-18 stills.

[Smashy]

On 7/20/2024 at 2:09 PM, Gryzor said:

Anyone could review this again??? F-16 radar AA stutter was solved. F-18 stills.

@Gryzor - resurrecting this old thread because I was having nearly the same issue with extremely annoying stuttering with the Viper and Hornet when the AA radar is emitting.  This was noticeable mostly right when weight-on-wheels was removed and the radar started emitting as well as pointing the nose of the aircraft in a different direction.  I would get multiple, short spikes in frametime and lower FPS.

I tried a few things to troubleshoot including:

• disable ReShade
• unpark CPU cores
• single monitor only (no exports)
• newly-created save directory

Nothing helped.  I finally did a slow repair and this seemed to do the trick.  I still have the occasional stutter but it's nowhere near as bad as it was.  It was so bad I was ready to give up on the Hornet, which is one of my favorite modules.  Hope this helps, if you're still seeing the problem.

Update - looks like the slow repair didn't fix things.  The annoying stutter was back the very next day.  It ranges from mildly annoying to practically unplayable.  This only happens in the Hornet and Viper.  I'm currently playing around with CPU affinity and that seems to help but there does not appear to be a definitive action that solves the problem permanently.

Edited January 7 by Smashy

[Gryzor]

I just want to revisit this trhead. Radar stuttering (only F-18) are special visible in low level flight with F-18 in AA radar mode, specially in Cold War Germany map. Its the only AC it causes those stutters.