pp mode vs too mode

[HoekomWerkNiks]

Hi. 

If I have a flight plan and my target is at  waypoint 6 isn't that considerd a pre plan attack instead of target of opportunity and a target spotted on the flight coincidentally considered as a target of opportunity?

[Tholozor]

Currently we don't have a way to set up PP missions in the Hornet for JDAM/JSOW/SLAM/HARM, as these would be loaded from MUMI (data cartridge).

Designating a waypoint to be used as a target would be TOO, because the aircraft has no way to know what the waypoint is for, it's just a waypoint to the computer.

Once we have the ability to make actual pre-planned target points, co-locating waypoints won't be necessary.

However, if the context is that you're using a waypoint to mark a target for non-smart weapons like GP bombs or PW2s, you can say that waypoint is your TGT point, and designate it as-such in your waypoint sequence, but it's not necessarily the same as a PP mission.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Tholozor

[Jenson]

On 6/13/2023 at 8:46 AM, Tholozor said:

Currently we don't have a way to set up PP missions in the Hornet for JDAM/JSOW/SLAM/HARM, as these would be loaded from MUMI (data cartridge).

Designating a waypoint to be used as a target would be TOO, because the aircraft has no way to know what the waypoint is for, it's just a waypoint to the computer.

Once we have the ability to make actual pre-planned target points, co-locating waypoints won't be necessary.

However, if the context is that you're using a waypoint to mark a target for non-smart weapons like GP bombs or PW2s, you can say that waypoint is your TGT point, and designate it as-such in your waypoint sequence, but it's not necessarily the same as a PP mission.

 

Does this mean that IRL all PP coordinates are loaded from the data cartridge? and we can't input them from the UFC panel during cold start? 

[Tholozor]

50 minutes ago, Jenson said:

Does this mean that IRL all PP coordinates are loaded from the data cartridge? and we can't input them from the UFC panel during cold start? 

PP missions can loaded via MUMI, but can also be created/edited from the cockpit, nothing prevents you from doing that (there's just a small handful of things that can't be created/edited from the cockpit, such as the name of the mission). I should've specified in my previous post that we currently can't make PP missions outside of the cockpit.

Due to inherent inaccuracies of TOO coordinate generation IRL (that aren't simulated in DCS, such as Dilution of Precision, and User Equivalent Range Error), pilots are recommended to create PP missions when passed coordinates from ground controllers for precision strikes.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Tholozor

[Jenson]

24 minutes ago, Tholozor said:

PP missions can loaded via MUMI, but can also be created/edited from the cockpit, nothing prevents you from doing that (there's just a small handful of things that can't be created/edited from the cockpit, such as the name of the mission). I should've specified in my previous post that we currently can't make PP missions outside of the cockpit.

Due to inherent inaccuracies of TOO coordinate generation IRL (that aren't simulated in DCS, such as Dilution of Precision, and User Equivalent Range Error), pilots are recommended to create PP missions when passed coordinates from ground controllers for precision strikes.

 

Thanks for the explanation! Very much looking forward to the data cartridge function in DCS. 

[amalahama]

3 hours ago, Tholozor said:

PP missions can loaded via MUMI, but can also be created/edited from the cockpit, nothing prevents you from doing that (there's just a small handful of things that can't be created/edited from the cockpit, such as the name of the mission). I should've specified in my previous post that we currently can't make PP missions outside of the cockpit.

Due to inherent inaccuracies of TOO coordinate generation IRL (that aren't simulated in DCS, such as Dilution of Precision, and User Equivalent Range Error), pilots are recommended to create PP missions when passed coordinates from ground controllers for precision strikes.

 

Exactly, when exact coordinates of the target are available, only PP would get the best CEP, since TOO relies on the imperfect aircraft capability of geolocate the reference point.

If the CEP differences between one mode and another were modeled in DCS would be great. MAybe a topic for the wishlist

[CBStu]

Isn't TOO w/ 'waypoint designate' using a waypoint w/ 'precise' coordinates fairly accurate? Or does DCS make it seem more accurate than it is in RL?

[MarkyMark]

1 hour ago, CBStu said:

Isn't TOO w/ 'waypoint designate' using a waypoint w/ 'precise' coordinates fairly accurate? Or does DCS make it seem more accurate than it is in RL?

If you know coordinates yes, using precise mode for weapons like the SLAM in TOO mode is very accurate. I just recently started playing with it. Have been able to hit Sam radar from 50+ miles (on Sinai map with fixed, known Sam locations).  Setting up 4 locations is a bit tedious but it works.