Rongor Posted June 30, 2023 Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) I hand off a SD of an SA-11 site from the HAD as SOI to HARM set to POS-PB-mode. Pressing weapon release doesn't initiate the launch, although I am inside the AMZ and on the optimal loft cue on the ASL. Not even the alt release button doest trigger the launch. When switching HAD-target to the 11-TELAR and handing off again, HARM does launch normally, only on the SD it doesn't. no HARM on SD.trk Tried the same situation with HARM being in POS-RUK. Again did the HAD handoff. HARM launched on the SD normally. HARM on SD in RUK.trk Edited June 30, 2023 by Rongor
ED Team Lord Vader Posted June 30, 2023 ED Team Posted June 30, 2023 Hi, @Rongor In your first track, your Master Arm is off. I took over, turned on Master Arm and the weapon fired with no issues. Esquadra 701 - DCS Portugal - Discord
Rongor Posted June 30, 2023 Author Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) Then it might be a problem with Master arm? I'm pretty sure I had it on. In this first track you can see me redesignating to the 11 in the HAD when launch at SD fails and then the HARM did launch, without me touching the master arm at all. Also this is only the one attempt I did specifically to do the track. I had it exactly like this before, hand off to SD didn't launch, then redesignated to 11, launch occured. That's what made me replay the exact situation again to create a track. Edited June 30, 2023 by Rongor
Rongor Posted June 30, 2023 Author Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Lord Vader said: Hi, @Rongor In your first track, your Master Arm is off. I took over, turned on Master Arm and the weapon fired with no issues. Sorry, but then your track replay is wrong. I just rewatched this very track I attached above (no HARM on SD.trk) and Master Arm on is happening right in the very first few seconds. You see it on when mission starts and then verifying me its state by flipping it briefly off and then on again within the first 10 seconds. The fact I then launched a HARM at an 11 is evidence Master Arm is on. Also Master arm remains on after I launched this first HARM. Then I redesignate on the SD and pull into the loft. This is a screenshot from this situation, made in the track replay, time code in the DED 22:03:30: you can even see me depress the Alt release button thereafter... Edited June 30, 2023 by Rongor
ED Team Lord Vader Posted June 30, 2023 ED Team Posted June 30, 2023 It's your track, not mine. I suggest you run a repair on your system. Again, I was able to take control, press the switch to Master Arm ON and the weapon fired. Esquadra 701 - DCS Portugal - Discord
Rongor Posted June 30, 2023 Author Posted June 30, 2023 only to be sure, you want me to run a system repair because a situation I experienced was exactly recorded in my track as I witnessed it and also replays correctly on my end, while it doesn't replay correctly on your end?
Moonshine Posted June 30, 2023 Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) tested it on my end with no issues at all. i tried it in various different ways of designating, immediately at the start as SD appears on HAD, only when it is PGM2, with pullback and without pullback, after stepping through the emitters first before firing etc... in all cases every HARM did fire even at the SD on first press of WPN release button and i didnt even fly the perfect pull up in degrees as the distance is so close. HARM-POS-PB_SA-11_3.trkHARM-POS-PB_SA-11_2.trkHARM-POS-PB_SA-11.trkHARM-POS-PB_SA-11_4.trk As vader suspects there might be something funky on your end of the install. maybe mods, maybe something else Edited June 30, 2023 by Moonshine
Rongor Posted June 30, 2023 Author Posted June 30, 2023 Ok, I did a repair only 2 days ago but can try it again. What would still interest me is if you see any HARMs launching at all in my very first track, since Master arm is allegedly off, none should launch. Yet they do in my replay...
ED Team Lord Vader Posted June 30, 2023 ED Team Posted June 30, 2023 38 minutes ago, Rongor said: only to be sure, you want me to run a system repair because a situation I experienced was exactly recorded in my track as I witnessed it and also replays correctly on my end, while it doesn't replay correctly on your end? A replay is a replay of a state. In mine your weapon never fires as you state, but that switch is also in Master Arm OFF as you can see in my screenshot. If I take control (or even start a fresh mission) and perform the task with no issues, then you must assume there could be something on your system, correct? Also, the repair is a suggestion and that sometimes corrects a lot of issues. Esquadra 701 - DCS Portugal - Discord
Rongor Posted June 30, 2023 Author Posted June 30, 2023 While I will follow the advice to run a repair, here is what I was seeing ingame and do see when replaying the track: 0:05 flipping Master arm off and on again 1:44 launching on 11 defeating missile until 2:40 3:30 attempting to launch on SD 3:37 trying it with the alt release button
Moonshine Posted June 30, 2023 Posted June 30, 2023 i do see what you mean. despite master arm being on, the box symbology on the HUD never flashes (flashing would mean you are within release parameters) and hence the missile isnt firing despite wpn rel being pressed. you are however relatively close to the target yet given the HUD symbology and the DLZ, you are not yet min-ranging it, so HARM should fire.
Rongor Posted June 30, 2023 Author Posted June 30, 2023 well thanks guys for looking into my stuff, will report back after further testing when repair is done.
Moonshine Posted June 30, 2023 Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) HARM-POS-PB_SA-11_5.trk @Lord Vader i was able to reproduce it to some extent. in POS-PB, the "footprint" of the HARM is relatively narrow. by designating a emitter outside of said footprint and then turning towards it to get the emitter within the footprint, the SPI doesnt seem to update and hence the harm "box" in the hud never starts flashing, preventing a weapon release did it on both occasion using OPs track and taking control right form the beginning, first designating the launcher (11), no box was flashing until i undesignated the emitter on HAD and re-designated it, with the emitter now being within the HARM footprint. the exact same happens on the second HARM i launch at the SD Edit: used my own test and did exactly as described above, did reproduce the issue as described by OP HARM-POS-PB_SA-11_6.trk Edited June 30, 2023 by Moonshine
ED Team Lord Vader Posted June 30, 2023 ED Team Posted June 30, 2023 Thank you @MoonshineI'll look into that, but that's not what the original report was about. He was well within the envelope, so much so, I fired the missile. Esquadra 701 - DCS Portugal - Discord
Moonshine Posted June 30, 2023 Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Lord Vader said: Thank you @MoonshineI'll look into that, but that's not what the original report was about. He was well within the envelope, so much so, I fired the missile. yeah i dont think the DLZ is the issue. the issue seems to be the emitter being designated while still outside of the "footprint" (as in azimuth, not in terms of range) - mostly will occur when in a turn like he was. best seen in my latest edit, test number 6 Edited June 30, 2023 by Moonshine
Rongor Posted June 30, 2023 Author Posted June 30, 2023 8 minutes ago, Moonshine said: yeah i dont think the DLZ is the issue. the issue seems to be the emitter being designated while still outside of the "footprint" (as in azimuth, not in terms of range) - mostly will occur when in a turn like he was. best seen in my latest edit, test number 6 When I created the report, I didn't even had noticed the box not flashing. Only you made me aware and now I see it too. This may in fact very well be the underlying issue and I was only connecting it to PB on Snowdrift because I didn't see this other clue. Doesn't solve my apparently corrupted track yet lets take it from your approach then. Again, thanks for also looking into it.
ED Team Lord Vader Posted June 30, 2023 ED Team Posted June 30, 2023 Hi again @Moonshine I watched your track and it seems normal. The weapon is in PB for STPT 1, SA10, it will take some time to perform the search for a new designation outside this pre-briefed data. It does eventually track the target if you select SA10 and turn in, the box flashes and you can fire the missile. This is a bit off the design of the system, you should switch to RUK or EOM to do this. I get it you just tried to demonstrate a possible "hole" in the system, but I think we're just operating beyond design now. Esquadra 701 - DCS Portugal - Discord
Moonshine Posted June 30, 2023 Posted June 30, 2023 (edited) for sure, EOM or RUK would be the better option to use. thanks for clarification. what i dont get is the following: in this test i first set the PB for SD prior to do anything else then i flew a bit offset to not have the STP within PB footprint. as soon as i saw SD on HAD, i designated it. after designating it, i turned directly for the steerpoint/the emitter. for the whole duration of my flight there, the box never started flashing at all, despite the "new data" being the same as the "pre briefed" data. HARM-POS-PB_SA-11_7.trk bottom line, PB is just not the mode to use together with the HTS/HAD Edited June 30, 2023 by Moonshine
Rongor Posted June 30, 2023 Author Posted June 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, Lord Vader said: Hi again @Moonshine I watched your track and it seems normal. The weapon is in PB for STPT 1, SA10, it will take some time to perform the search for a new designation outside this pre-briefed data. It does eventually track the target if you select SA10 and turn in, the box flashes and you can fire the missile. This is a bit off the design of the system, you should switch to RUK or EOM to do this. I get it you just tried to demonstrate a possible "hole" in the system, but I think we're just operating beyond design now. Thanks my Lord. And thanks @Moonshine
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